Minister for Defence - ABC Radio National Interview with Michael Brissenden

Subjects: Defence White Paper

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MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

For more on this, I’m joined now by the Defence Minister Marise Payne. Marise Payne, welcome to the program.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Good morning, Michael.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

$30 billion in 10 years; can we afford it? Such a big spend when almost every other area’s been told to tighten their belts.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well I think what you’ll see when the Defence White Paper and the associated material with it, including our Integrated Investment Program, is released today, that this is the result of a very careful and methodical assessment of need into the future, matched with a revised force structure and that was commenced in 2014.

That process has been meticulous, including externally cost-assuring the Integrated Investment Program as well, so I think it sits fairly solidly, in fact, as a foundation for what we need to do in Defence.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

OK, there’s a lot of fixation on this two per cent of GDP figure; there has been for a number of years now. Is that the right parameter to put on Defence spending any way?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well, it’s not just, as you describe it in your words a fixation that occupies some minds here, it’s also a focus internationally, in a number of our partners and allies.

What I think it shows though, is that we inherited a system in Defence which was severely degraded and, let’s be frank about this, the 2013 White Paper didn’t include any funding to actually support the developments that were needed, so we’re inheriting, we have inherited, that as well as needing to do our own work for the future, so that is going to enable us to meet our election commitment of 2013 to reach two per cent of GDP within the decade.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

OK, this White Paper, we understand will underline finally the decision to build 12 new submarines; why have you returned to that after toying with potentially only building eight?

MINISTER PAYNE:

I think that’s a matter we might pursue later in the day, Michael, in terms of the official release of the White Paper, but one of the most important aspects is making sure that we have the capability that Australia needs to protect ourselves, to do the work that we need to do both in our region and further afield and part of that contemplation has been through the force structure review process, the development of that capability and acquisition plan as I’ve indicated and that includes the acquisition of superior submarines.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

And they’ll be built here, in Australia?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well, as you know and all of the commentators know, the competitive evaluation process is underway. Each of the international participants in that process was asked to provide a submission that covered three build approaches: an entirely international build; a hybrid build and a domestic build. A competitive evaluation process is being considered now by officials, by experts within Defence and we will get their advice in due course and the Government will announce its decision then.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Ok. An extra 5,000 troops; is that soldiers, air and navy personnel? Why do we need so many extras?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well 5,000 is an interesting number, of course that’s what happens when perhaps not entirely accurate or detailed information is released in advance of an official process.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

How many then? Fill us in.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well, in fact, I think it will be clear today from the release of the White Paper that it’s more like 2,500 new troops and just over 2,000 – about 2,300 – redefined jobs within the existing ADF, so that is a combination which I think somebody’s added up to 5,000.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Almost an extra 5,000 personnel then?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Ah, well the jobs, yes, the personnel, the 2,300 are existing roles, but yes, it will be a very significant boost.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

So, and as you say, 2,500 of those will be active serving military personnel; why do we need so many extra?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well, we have as you’ve already alluded to, we have some very significant capability acquisitions to pursue. That includes the maritime focus in naval vessels; it includes a significant amount of work in the land program for army and of course we are bringing online relatively soon, the Joint Strike Fighters, the new surveillance aircraft, so all of those things will see new tasks, new roles, new opportunities and hopefully – I’m very positive about this – I hope that Australians who have a desire to serve will see this as a real opportunity to participate in a modern, engaged, contemporary, agile military in Australia in the 21^st century.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

This is the third Defence White Paper since 2009 and in all of them China has been something of a central theme; what’s this one going to tell us about our relationship with China?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well I think you will find that it’s very consistent with the views that senior members of the Government have been expressing in recent times.

We obviously have a very, very valuable relationship with China. At the same time, though, and I did hear the Secretary of my Department briefly before we began this interview, at the moment, though, we are very clear in making our views known and openly known to China and to other claimants of locations in the South China Sea that we don't support that sort of activity and behaviour.

We don't support their unilateral declarations about which particular growth or otherwise belongs to them or someone else.

So we would much rather see a code of conduct adopted in that area. We would much rather see a much more cooperative approach, and we will be continuing to say that Australia has consistently and strongly supported freedom of overflight and freedom of navigation in accordance with international law, and we will continue to say that.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

And should we be doing more, should we be actually joining with the US and conducting a formal freedom of navigation exercise in the South China Sea, which is something I understand Tony Abbott is going to suggest in a speech in Japan this weekend?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Those are definitely matters for Government, and I've made - also made it very clear that I don't intend to make public comment on the potential future activities of the ADF in that regard.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

It's an increasingly delicate dance with the Chinese, you would have to concede that?

MINISTER PAYNE:

It's a very complex environment. Absolutely no doubt about that. And one in which we remain consistent in our views and also consistent in acknowledging the strength of our relationship with China.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Why was it necessary, then, to send a senior Defence official to Beijing to brief Chinese on what was coming in this White Paper? That suggests that delicate dance is particularly difficult at the moment?

MINISTER PAYNE:

I don't think that's anywhere close to be accurate, to be frank.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

OK.

MINISTER PAYNE:

The role of our department in producing a new White Paper is to most definitely talk it through with our nearest neighbours and our close partners and allies - so not just China but in Indonesia, in Japan, with our colleagues elsewhere in the region, with the United States, with the United Kingdom, with New Zealand.

All of those discussions have been had and by no means confined to China.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Alright. Well, this is as I said the third Defence White Paper since 2009. The third to decide and explain how Australia's Defence policy needs to address the fundamental challenges in our region. Is this one going to stand the test of time or are we likely to have to redo it again in another couple of years?

MINISTER PAYNE:

I think these are iterative processes, I don't think these processes are set in concrete. We live in an extraordinarily dynamic world environment and we also face some very significant and constantly changing threats.

The threat that Daesh poses to us on our own shores, in our region, and then further afield, where the men and women of the ADF are participating in the task against Daesh in Syria and Iraq, is one that changes every day.

I'd very much like to see a capacity for government to make regular statements around the status of Defence strategy, around, in this case our integrated investment program. The progress we're making under the Defence industry policy statement we released today. I think that sort of a dynamic approach is in fact very important.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Increased spending, increased troops does suggest that you think, the Government thinks that we'll need to do more in our region in the future?

MINISTER PAYNE:

We are most certainly very committed to engaging further in the region and to extending our international engagement through Defence activities.

There are a number of ways we're able to do that. Increasing our representation diplomatically in the first instance, but also - and engaging with our close neighbour nations in training and in exercises.

We already have very extensive programs of training and exercises that do include our neighbours but we, in this White Paper, will be making it clear that we can grow that, we can develop that.

That helps enormously. It helps in interoperability, it helps in relationship-building, it helps in our awareness of our own region and working with our colleagues. There's no substitute for that sort of activity.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Marise Payne, thanks very much for joining us.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Thank you very much, Michael.

ENDS

Media contacts:

Henry Budd (Minister Payne's office)                  0429 531 143

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