Minister for Defence - AM WITH MICHAEL BRISSENDEN

Subjects: Australia’s involvement in fight against Daesh; Section 18C of the Anti-Discrimination Act

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Defence Minister Marise Payne says coalition operations in the Middle East are turning their attention to the liberation of Mosul in the fight against Islamic State.  She says the liberation of strongholds in Mosul and Raqqa will be vital to the eventual collapse of the terrorist group.  The Minister has just returned from her first trip to the Middle East to visit Australian troops since taking on the Defence portfolio last year.  She said significant military gains have been made but is the war being won?

For more I’m joined on the line by the Defence Minister Marise Payne.  Marise Payne, thanks for joining us.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Good morning, Michael.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

So you say the tide has turned in the fight against Daesh or Islamic State, are they losing or is the nature of the conflict itself changing?

MINISTER PAYNE:

They are most certainly losing territory and as I’ve written this morning they’ve lost 40 per cent of the territory they once held in Iraq and around 20 per cent in Syria, and on the ground we are very pleased to see the capability the Iraqi forces themselves are achieving with the support of members of the International Coalition. That is making a significant difference, and if you wanted to characterise the fight on the ground as changing that would be a significant part of that.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

It’s difficult to keep hold of territory though isn’t it? Claims recently to have liberated Fallujah, clearly there is still a lot of fighting going on in that area. Actually securing the territory and maintaining its secure is one the biggest challenges, isn’t it?

MINISTER PAYNE:

It is indeed and one of the reasons that the Government considered and resolved to broaden our role, if you like, in consultation with the Iraqi Government and other members of the Coalition was so that we were able to provide support for troops, not only those who are taking up this fight on the frontline, but also those who will have ultimate responsibility for maintaining stability and keeping secure those territories taken back from Daesh; Ramadi and Fallujah are a good example of that.  We will also be working with law enforcement agencies now in Iraq in a broader training mandate as part of our Building Partner Capacity role with the New Zealand Defence Force, to expand the level of support there is for that stabilisation and security process.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

And how effective is it because some reports suggest that it’s not particularly effective in places like Fallujah?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Michael, there is absolutely no question that this is an extraordinarily challenging process. These are very difficult environments in which to battle.  It is no exaggeration to say with summer temperatures at 50 degrees Celsius across Iraq at the moment that the drain and strain on forces is very significant but they don’t take a backward step, they are very proud of the leadership they have been able to display and are very proud of the advances they have made.  That is, however, not to diminish the difficulty of the task.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

It’s pretty clear that defeating IS or Daesh in territory they claim as part of their so-called Caliphate doesn’t defeat their ideas and their motivations. We don’t seem to be winning that war yet, do we?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Both the coalition and the Iraqi Government themselves are acutely aware of the importance of defeating that side of the battle and competing in that side of the battle as well.  The work that we are doing as part of the Coalition on social media, the work the Iraqi Government is doing with young people, in particular to destroy the 'cloud' that Daesh has created about their strengths and their mantra is very, very important in this. That communication with young Iraqis, well, with young Muslims across the world, is extremely important.  Australia is playing a role in that, the UK, the International Coalition itself are all very much part of that process.  I met with General Sean McFarland in Baghdad last week and that was certainly part of our discussion.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

And can you see Australia’s commitment changing? Earlier this year, of course, your Government rejected a call for more troops, are you confident you won't be called to make further contributions?

MINISTER PAYNE:

I think what we have seen in the work of the Iraqi Security Forces, is that the importance of local engagement working in the process of having Iraqis taking their country back from the extremism of Daesh, is what is making a significant difference here and we will continue to support that with our Building Partner Capacity role, with our Advise and Assist role with the Special Operations Task Group as well.  The work that the Special Operations Task Group is doing is very significant, highly skilled members of the Iraqi Special Forces are an integral part of this battle that we’ve seen in Fallujah and Ramadi and I’m sure will be very much an important part of the progress towards Mosul.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

So you think it will just remain pretty much our commitment will remain as it is?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well in fact we have recently changed.  As I said, we have recently expanded our commitment to the Building Partner Capacity role to include law enforcement agencies.  We have changed the areas in which we are able to operate; we were very much focussed in Taji in particular.  We will have more flexibility for our men and women in the ADF to work in other parts of the country. That is going to be an important bit of flexibility.  Those changes were ones that were produced in consultation with, of course, the Iraqi Government, with the International Coalition and we will continue to work with them as we need to.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

This broadly suggests the coalition thinks its strategy is working so far, but how closely do you think IS leaders are watching the US election?

MINISTER PAYNE:

They obviously have an eye to media of all forms but…

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Would a Trump presidency disrupt the campaign is the nuts of the question?

MINISTER PAYNE:

I think what I have seen in the last week, Michael, is that the International Coalition is very focussed, working with the Iraqi Government on what they need to do on the ground in Iraq, and that will continue to be their focus notwithstanding political exigencies elsewhere.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Kim Beazley on this program last week said that a Trump presidency would trash the structure of alliance relationships, not just in Iraq, of course, but in our region.  Do you share those concerns?

MINISTER PAYNE:

We obviously support and hold the importance of our alliance with the US very profoundly, very, very deeply, and we would work with whichever government is elected in the United States, to continue and to maintain that.  Governments change across the world from time-to-time. In fact we’ve seen Prime Ministers change as recently as the last couple of months in the UK, our very important ally, so we recognise that, but we will work with the Government of the United States as it is elected in the democratic process.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Donald Trump is a unique political leader though, isn’t he?

MINISTER PAYNE:

There are many of those around the world and I meet them from time-to-time in various incarnations, as does the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister.  What we have to continue to do is to be a responsible international citizen and the role that the men and women in the ADF are playing in Iraq and further afield in Afghanistan, where I also visited last week, is a very important part of that.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Okay, just quickly and finally on a domestic political issue.  Do you believe there is now another push within the Coalition to rewrite 18C of the Anti-Discrimination Act?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Michael, I’m not sure what constitutes a push within the Coalition but what…

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

There are reports that a couple of your colleagues have publicly expressed a desire to revisit the issue.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well the debate may be continuing with some people but the Government has no intention to make any amendments to 18C, that reform was taken off the table in August of 2014, and that remains the Government’s position.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Okay. Marise Payne, thanks so much for joining us.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Thank you, Michael.

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:

Defence Minister Marise Payne.

[ENDS]

Further information: Dean Carlson 0409 569 992