Interview with Karl Stefanovic, Today Show, Channel Nine

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Fresh fall-out from that historic defence pact with high level talks this morning boosting America's military presence in Australia. Taking part in those talks in the US, is Defence Minister Peter Dutton who joins me now from Fort Meade, alongside Deputy Opposition Leader Richard Marles in Geelong.

Good morning guys, nice to see you. Peter, it's been a busy morning for you. A new deal with American troops based here. When, how many and where and what about weapons and intelligence?

PETER DUTTON:

Firstly, good morning guys, nice to be back with you. It's been an historic visit here and we've got a huge commitment from the US, our most important ally. It's all about keeping Australia safe and our Indo-Pacific's a very uncertain place, there's no doubt about that. So having troops based – and already we've got thousands of troops based in the north of Australia in Darwin – but there's more that we can do in the maritime space and the airspace.

There's also a big opportunity here for Australian industry. The sustainment of all of that, personnel and the equipment that they bring with them. There are opportunities there for Australian businesses. There's many, many elements to it, but really it's all about trying to keep us as a country safe and that's the first objective.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

When will they start to roll in, and are we talking about a significant development here or is it more of just the same?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Karl, it's more about obviously the subs, which is the most significant announcement.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

…yeah…

PETER DUTTON:

And then it's about people rotating through. So some might be on a permanent basis, but we'll work through the numbers. There's obviously an opportunity across the north of Australia where people can be based, but in the southern states as well at airfields. The United States is talking about bringing through all sorts of planes; bombers and different surveillance planes, etc, sustaining them through Richmond or Amberley, different airports.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Okay.

PETER DUTTON:

There's a big opportunity.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Okay. So when will the first sub hit the water because the danger is clear and present?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Karl, we work that out over the next 12 to 18 months with the United States and the United Kingdom. We look at the platforms that they're using at the moment. The beauty about this sub is that for about 35 years through the life of it, you don't have to change the reactor. Many others need to be refuelled. So I'm hoping that we can get a better picture of that over the course of the next 12 to 18 months.

But it'll be some years off and it's a huge investment, but it will give us superiority in the region and that's what we need to maintain. We need to be able to protect the approaches through the water ways, through the top of Australia in particular and that's what this sub will deliver.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

The point is though Pete, in relation to China, the danger there is present. Are we talking 15 years, 20 years to build these things?

PETER DUTTON:

I think you're looking at, you know, the end of the 2030s and hopefully before that, but that's what we want to explore now, and we've also announced that we're going to extend the life of the Collins-class. They start to be refurbished in 2026 so that will push the existing subs that we've got into service beyond 2040, so there will not be a capability gap, but it's clear as the technology improves and there's a greater detection of submarines and, you know, any surface craft, we have to have a platform that's really stealth-like that can't be detected and that's what the nuclear sub does.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Richard, now that's a long wait. Now, what would you do to plug the gap in the meantime?

RICHARD MARLES:

Well firstly, we support the deal that the Government have done. This sort of arrangement enjoys bipartisan support, but the reason we're in this situation is because the Government completely botched the future submarine program with the French, and Peter has just now explained that what this is going to mean is we're going to have to extend the life of our existing submarines.

I think when people get over, you know, the first flush of excitement about having nuclear submarines and they realise we're not actually getting these for the better part of 20 years, that our existing submarines that were built in the 1990s are now going to have to operate through until 2050, well that doesn't make me feel a whole lot safer.

And what we've seen is eight lost years in the handling of the submarine program, thousands of future jobs in Adelaide being destroyed, billions of dollars being spent on nothing. I mean really the handling of the future submarine program over the last eight years by this Government is an appalling failure of Australia's national security and that's actually the story that comes out of this.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

But let's look at the…Richard, let's look at the positives. Look, I'm glad that you're on board. Here I was thinking that Labor is antinuclear and here you are rolling over faster than the Cats.

RICHARD MARLES:

I'm very aggrieved that you've raised Geelong in the context of this interview. You've completely thrown me there, Karl, that was not nice what you just did then.

We accept that this technology is the best option for Australia's future submarine capability. But the issue here is that we're in this situation because the Government have completely botched the handling of our submarine program over the last eight years, and it is an appalling failure of Australia's national security.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

I promise not to raise the Cats again, that was a low blow and my sincerest apologies.

RICHARD MARLES:

Thank you.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Let's go back to Peter. French authorities are blowing up deluxe this morning and understandably. This morning they say they found out about our $90 billion deal with them being ripped up in the media. Here they are.

PHILIPPE ETIENNE:

We were indeed very much upset by the fact that we learned that this new contract, first we were upset because Australia, as you said, has terminated this contract where we had all invested so much effort, and also because we were completely – we were not informed until we seen the first news yesterday morning in Australia and also in the US.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Pete, that's a pretty shabby way of treating a partner.

PETER DUTTON:

It's just not true, Karl. I mean I spoke to my counterpart the Defence Minister. The Foreign Affairs Minister spoke to hers. The Prime Minister had written to President Macron. Look, in the end I don't make any apologies for making a decision that's in our country's best interests.

We do live in an uncertain time and the advice to me was very clear that the nuclear sub was a much better platform for us than what the French were offering and that was the decision that we made. It gives us the best protection against whatever happens over the coming years.

You know, just to go back to one of the points Richard made. Part of this agreement is making sure that we have visits to our ports and regular visits from the UK and from the US of their submarines and that will supplement what we're doing with the Collins-class.

There's a lot of activity. We're a much safer country now because of this decision, and we'll work with the French. We understand their disappointment, but my job is to make sure that we keep our country safe.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

What's it going to cost, 2 billion?

PETER DUTTON:

No, it's going to cost much more than that, Karl, even more than what you've got in the bank…

KARL STEFANOVIC:

No, no, I mean the compensation.

PETER DUTTON:

It's going to cost I think of that order, but probably north of that and we'll work out what that fee will be. There's a lot of sunk cost in the shipyards which obviously at Osborne in South Australia will be turned to building the new sub. Look, it's an expensive business. I mean you don't get peace and stability and security for free. I mean let's be very honest about it.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

It's an expensive break-up though.

PETER DUTTON:

It's an expensive break-up, but we don't go there Karl. I think it's…sorry…that one was for Richard. I'm just giving a little bit back for Richard, you mentioned the Cats.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

You've rolled both of us.

PETER DUTTON:

We didn’t want an immunity ticket, all right. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Let's move right on…

RICHARD MARLES:

It is an expensive break-up, there's no doubt about that.

PETER DUTTON:

It is going to be costly.

RICHARD MARLES:

It's a costly relationship with the French, let's be clear.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Yeah, exactly. He's got a bit full of himself over there with all those nuke announcements.

Richard, the one thing is I will say to you is that Peter Dutton has just completely and utterly jammed your COVID election.

RICHARD MARLES:

Well what's clear here is that we've got an incompetent Government, right. If we want to put this in the spotlight, their failure in the last eight years to manage the single biggest project, the single biggest purchase Australia has made in any context ever, that puts into light how incompetent this Government is. And that is a point that we are going to be making really clear and that has compromised Australia's national security. That is the fact of the matter.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

All right. Just finally before we go to Richard, on behalf of you and myself it's time to jam Peter Dutton. Let's have a look at Peter Dutton in South Korea trying to do the bump.

RICHARD MARLES:

I don't get this. Can I say I have hugged Peter on this show and I don't get why he didn't give his Korean counterpart just a big old embrace. He can do it.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

He's had a big couple of days Peter Dutton.

RICHARD MARLES:

He's got the emotional range.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

I can't love you more this morning, Peter Dutton.

PETER DUTTON:

Hey Karl, I've seen you on bad nights out, mate. And I've seen you at the Logies, mate, and I've seen some very bad moves from you, that's all I can say. There was a language difficulty there, it was South Korea, the interpreter didn't come in quick enough, you know. I'm glad I'm here for your entertainment.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

I love it. Look, it's been a big couple of days, a monumental couple of days, guys. We appreciate your time, thanks for being with us on this Friday. We appreciate it.