Interview with Sabra Lane, AM, ABC

SABRA LANE:

The Defence Minister is Peter Dutton. He joins us now. Good morning and welcome to AM.

PETER DUTTON:

Thanks Sabra. Good morning.

SABRA LANE:

Russia denies it's responsible for this. Last month Ukraine asked Australia for assistance in boosting its cyber capability. Did that come in time to deal with this and will Australia offer more help?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Sabra, clearly Russia's on a particular path at the moment, an unwelcome one. Nobody wants to see conflict anywhere in the world, and certainly not in the Ukraine, but the activities of President Putin are clear for all to see.

The cyber-attacks now form part of the early days, the opening salvo, in a modern war, and the DDoS attacks that took place in the Ukraine clearly can be attributed to Russia - that's the independent expert analysis - and Russia will deny that, of course, but the reality is that they have undertaken those attacks and there are reports, credible reports, now around about false flag statements and activities, and that should cause us all great concern.

SABRA LANE:

Did Australia offer to help boost Ukraine's cyber capability when it asked for it last January, and will we do more?

PETER DUTTON:

We will work with Ukraine to provide some sort and international partners in terms of the cyber defences and protections. I think that's been obvious and we're able to provide that support.

We've been very clear that we're not providing or not sending troops to the region.

Obviously NATO and the European leaders and the United States and others have provided support in various ways and that's helpful, but is it going to deter Putin from going into Ukraine? I don't see any credible reporting at the moment that indicates that Putin's about to step back from his attack.

SABRA LANE:

Marise Payne met with her Ukrainian counterpart overnight and he said that Australia's offered military technical support. Is this additional cyber training or something else?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Sabra, there's the opportunity for us perhaps to provide some support by way of basic equipment etc, but Marise has had those conversations and I spoke with her yesterday.We'll look at those requests and we can see what usefully we can provide.

But we need to be realistic in the circumstances. As the troops amass and as the ships are on a particular course, and now occupying the Black Sea and the troops in Belarus and elsewhere, every sign is a worrying indication. So we can provide what support we can, but we've been very clear that the Australian Government won't be providing troops on the ground. That hasn't been a request that's been made and it's not one that we're minded to answer if it is made.

SABRA LANE:

Has the Australian Government received a formal response from China about the use of military grade lasers against an RAAF plane last week?

PETER DUTTON:

No we haven't. I'll write to my counterpart today and obviously a very concerning act. It cannot only disrupt some of the radar systems within the P8 surveillance plane, but it can blind the RAAF crew. This is a military grade laser system. It's a deliberate act and it's an unwelcome one and it's an unprofessional act, an unsafe act, and that's why we've called it out and we hope that by calling it out there's a greater deterrence that it won't happen in the future.

SABRA LANE:

If it does, if the action is repeated, what can Australia do to stop it?

PETER DUTTON:

Well again, I think we're best to be open and honest about the actions of China. The human rights abuses that we're seeing by the Chinese Government, I mean we still have young people who were campaigning in Hong Kong that have not been heard of since that action, the clamp down action by the Chinese Communist Party. We've seen activities otherwise in the East China Sea most recently where there's provocation toward Japanese coast guard forces there. We're seeing clashes on the border between India and China. There are very many conflicts that China is involved in, economic coercion etc, and I think the world's best to be open and frank to shine a light on some of the activities because that, in my judgement, is the best way that we can deter their future activities and behaviours. If we close our ears and our mouth, it's not going to improve and it won't go away.

SABRA LANE:

It's been suggested that China might be seeking to send a message to the federal government that it's naval patrols in the South China Sea are not welcome. Has the government considered that?

PETER DUTTON:

Well again Sabra, the two naval ships, the two Chinese PLA-Navy ships were in the Arafura Sea. They were in our Exclusive Economic Zone in Australian waters. We're well and truly within our rights to surveil those ships that are entering into our seaways. They came across the Torres Strait and into the Coral Sea and for that action with a military grade laser, to be used as some sort of a message, it's dangerous, as I say, and people can be blinded by it, there can be significant damage done to aircraft and it's an unacceptable practice.

SABRA LANE:

Just over a week ago you said this about Labor's Richard Marles, "He has a particular quality, capacity and intellect that if you're going objective you would admire." You're friends with him.

PETER DUTTON:

I am.

SABRA LANE:

Do you agree with the Prime Minister in labelling him a Manchurian candidate?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Sabra, I pointed out Richard's qualities and I'll point out the fact that Labor has significant problems when it comes to national security. I've been very open about that in relation to Richard's trip to China, statements about wanting to work more closely with the Chinese military forces - that was only in 2019 - Anthony Albanese's statements in the past, all of that, they want to be the alternative government.

SABRA LANE:

But your statements do jar with that label.

PETER DUTTON:

I think Sabra again, if we stick to the facts here we're on pretty safe ground. The fact is that Labor goes into elections – every election – saying that they will be no different to the government on economic management or on management of national security, and when they get into government they do the complete opposite because the left of their party drags them across to policies which are not in our country's best interests.

The fact that the Labor Party, when Anthony Albanese was Deputy Prime Minister under Kevin Rudd, reduced the level of spending in the Defence Force to the lowest level since 1938 - it speaks to their priorities - and they can say all of this in opposition; there'll be no difference between the two parties if Labor gets into government on economic security or national security – but it doesn't happen.

So I think they have a track record that they need to answer for because if Mr Albanese wants to be the prime minister of our country, there's a level of scrutiny that comes with it, and he needs to answer the questions about his own past, his own government's history and what that would mean if they were to be elected.

SABRA LANE:

Mr Dutton, thanks for joining AM this morning.

PETER DUTTON:

Thanks Sabra.

[ends]