Television Interview, ABC Afternoon Briefing

SUBJECTS: Foreign Interference; ADF Recruitment; NATO Summit; Support for Ukraine; United States Presidential Election.

MATTHEW DORAN, HOST: Meanwhile, overnight, the Prime Minister, or, sorry, the Defence Minister Richard Marles, announced Australia will send an extra $250 million dollars in military assistance to Ukraine. The commitment was made at the NATO summit in Washington, DC and takes Australia's total military assistance to Ukraine to more than $1.1 billion dollars. For more on that announcement and the news of the alleged Russian spies, we were joined a short time ago from Dallas by the Assistant Defence Minister, Matt Thistlethwaite. Matt Thistlethwaite, thanks for making the time for us on your long journey home from Washington, DC. I'm keen to get to the NATO summit and the announcement that's been made about additional support for Ukraine in just a moment. But you are the Assistant Defence Minister and we have seen this news this morning that a serving ADF Army private is one of two people arrested and charged with espionage offences. Russian born Australian citizens here, and the concern is that sensitive Australian information may well have been shared with Russian authorities. How concerning is it to see this sort of activity, however long it's been feared, actually certainly confirmed, at least to the point where allegations have been made in a court.

MATT THISTLETHWAITE, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR DEFENCE: G’day, Matt. Thanks for having me on. The Government's been made aware that a member of the Australian Defence Force has been arrested by the Australian Federal Police and been charged with espionage offences. That individual has been suspended from the Australian Defence Force. They've had their access to bases and the Defence ICT system cancelled and obviously there will be an ongoing investigation and a prosecution. That's about all I can say at the moment. Obviously, the Government takes these issues very, very seriously and no doubt this prosecution will be dealt with very seriously as well.

DORAN: Yeah. And you are right to say that this is a court case, a criminal proceeding that is still underway. Does this sort of confirm, I guess, what people were fearing about how Australia's sensitive information could well be targeted by foreign nationals?

ASSISTANT MINISTER: Yeah. Well, putting this case aside, it's been an area of concern for the Government and it's something that we've acted on in terms of introducing new regulations. The Safeguarding Australia's Military Secrets Bill was recently passed through the Parliament to ensure that the Government has the regulatory power to enforce the safeguarding of sensitive information and Australia's secrets and, of course, protecting the interoperability and the reputation that Australia has, particularly with our Five Eyes partners around the sharing of sensitive and classified information.

DORAN: Just one last one on this before we move on again, putting this case to one side. But we can't ignore some of the facts that are present here, including that this individual, this 40 year old woman who was a member of the Defence Force was also a dual citizen with Russia. Would a case like this prompt a broader look at how dual citizens are working within our Defence infrastructure as well?

ASSISTANT MINISTER: Well, obviously there are rules around the background checks that people have to undertake to become a member of the Australian Defence Force and they're very, very thorough background checks. And you will have noted that recently the Government changed the recruitment criteria for the ADF and we've opened it up to Pacific partners and eventually Five Eyes partners as well, people that are on a journey to citizenship. But part of that, an important part of that is ensuring that people have checkable histories and checking people's backgrounds is pretty crucial to Defence Force recruitment.

DORAN: Ok, let's touch on what you've been over in the United States talking about. And that's been the NATO summit. You were there with the Defence Minister Richard Marles, and overnight the Federal Government has made an announcement of an additional $250 million dollars for Ukraine. Talk us through what that money is going to be going towards.

ASSISTANT MINISTER: Yeah, that's right. It's a $250 million dollar commitment. It's Australia's largest ever military commitment and it involves the provision of additional military hardware, particularly anti-aircraft missiles, anti-tank weapons, further artillery, some guided weapons and of course, importantly clothing and equipment that was requested by the Ukrainian Defence Force. It takes our commitment to support for Ukraine to $1.3 billion dollars. And President Zelenskyy was very appreciative of the commitment that Australia has made and the commitments that were made by other Indo Pacific nations as well.

DORAN: We know that there's been a lot of discussion at this NATO summit about the situation in Ukraine. Some have described funding commitments that have been made during the course of this meeting as sort of future proofing NATO in looking towards the potential for a return of a Trump presidency in the United States. We all know his views on how NATO has been behaving, how much of sort of forward planning has come into the thinking of not only the Australian Government but also our partners when making these sort of commitments.

ASSISTANT MINISTER: I'd say two things in discussions with other NATO defence ministers, their commitment to assisting in the defence of Ukraine and repelling Russia's illegal invasion is rock solid. And that's evident in the commitments that have been made and indeed the language that's come out of the communique relating to Ukraine. The second point is I had a number of meetings with congressional representatives from both sides on Capitol Hill about AUKUS and about Ukraine. And I can tell you that their commitment to the defence of Ukraine is steadfast as well. So, I think that there's a collective commitment there and indeed a commitment within the United States Congress to continue that important support. 

DORAN: A commitment in Congress. But we know from recent history that Donald Trump is fairly singular in his approach, or fairly, you know, goes by his own, his own plans and procedures when he makes decisions. Is there a fear that on things like NATO funding, on Ukraine and maybe even more broadly, AUKUS, that there would have to be a lot of effort expended by Australian authorities to try to convince Donald Trump that this is still a good thing?

ASSISTANT MINISTER: Well, obviously, what happens in November here is a matter for the American people, but I would say that we've had an alliance with the United States since World War Two. It's served Australia's security and defence purposes very well. It's got broad scale support in the Australian population and it survived regardless of which administration's been in office in Washington and, of course, which governments have been in office in Canberra. So, the enduring nature of that alliance and the strengthening of that through AUKUS. The meetings that I had this week only reinforced for me the steadfast commitment that the American people have and indeed the American Congress has to continuing that support for AUKUS and indeed more broad scale support for their partnerships through NATO.

DORAN: Something President Zelenskyy has long called for are longer term funding commitments to provide Ukraine and the Ukrainian Defence Forces some sort of certainty about what resources they'll have in their ongoing resistance against Russia's invasion there. Is that something that forms any, or works into how the Australian Government thinks about this situation, rather than making these sort of funding package announcements?

ASSISTANT MINISTER: Well, there's two ways that we're making commitments. They're through those funding packages. One's been announced today. They tend to come from requests from the Ukrainian Defence Force about areas in which they've got shortages, particularly in artillery and weapons, and how other nations can help. So, we're meeting that commitment and they'll probably continue on a regular basis. But there's an ongoing commitment of Australia being involved through Operation Kudu in training Ukrainian troops in the United Kingdom in concert with the UK military. And that's a commitment that will continue regularly. I think we're on our sixth rotation. I visited the troops in Adelaide earlier this year, that were going off on the fifth rotation, and that's a commitment that we've made to continue that for as long as it takes.

DORAN: Well, Matt Thistlethwaite, we do appreciate you making the time for us this Friday. We'll let you go and hop on that plane and head home. Thanks for joining us.

ASSISTANT MINISTER: Thanks very much, Matt.

ENDS