Television Interview, Sunday Agenda

SUBJECTS: 14^th Trilateral Defence Ministers’ Meeting; Trump Administration; COP Climate Summit; Kevin Rudd; Liberals leaving Australians worse off

KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: First though, I've spoken to the Acting Prime Minister Richard Marles on a range of issues, including that attack ad we've just shown you. But we started with the breaking news today that the Japanese military will be joining the US Marine rotations in the Northern Territory.

RICHARD MARLES, ACTING PRIME MINISTER: Look, well, it's a very significant meeting. Firstly, it's the first time we've done the Australian US Japanese Trilateral in Australia. We've met on the margins of other meetings around the world, but to have a dedicated meeting in Australia is actually a very significant step. When we had our 2+2 meeting with Japan in September, one of the issues that we were looking at is how we can utilise the reciprocal access agreement that we've reached with Japan, which has now been enforced for a year or two. What that does is allow us to operate out of each other's bases and in each other's countries and we really want to use this in a way which builds greater familiarity between absolute defence forces and build interoperability. And one of the obvious opportunities was for Japan to participate in activities when the US Marine rotation is in place in Darwin during the dry months up here. So, we have spoken to Japan about having their Amphibious Rapid Deployment Brigade doing training with our own defence force, with our own army and with the U.S. marines. And we'll have more to say about that when we do the announcement later today. But having a more forward leaning opportunity for greater training with Japan and the US together is a really fantastic opportunity for our defence.

GILBERT: Is this announcement likely to go down poorly in Beijing though?

MARLES: Well, at the end of the day, this is about building Australian capability and that's what we are focused on. I mean, it is really important that we are building the best relationships possible with like-minded countries, with our friends and with our allies. Japan is obviously a country with whom we share values, a democracy. I mean, we have a huge strategic alignment with Japan. Again, this very much came out of our bilateral meeting in September, but it's been a theme of the conversations we've been having with Japan now for a number of years. We want to do.

GILBERT: You're not expecting any major pushback from China?

MARLES: Well, ultimately this is a matter for Australia and Japan and the United States in terms of their presence in Darwin with the Marine rotation, that's the focus. And we're clearly able to engage with the friends and allies that we choose. And it's really important that we are engaging with both the United States and with Japan and building a much bigger relationship with Japan has been a focus since we've been in power and this is a very natural extension of it.

GILBERT: The US Secretary of Defence, Lloyd Austin, this is his 12th visit to our region since he's had the job. He's not going to have it for much longer. This will be your last talks with him. Are you disappointed that he will no longer be Secretary of Defense given how committed he has been to the security of this region in particular?

MARLES: Well, Lloyd has been a wonderful Secretary of Defense for the United States. You're absolutely right in terms of mentioning his commitment to the region and his presence here on 12 visits from the US Secretary of Defense to this region is a huge commitment. And at a personal level, over the last two and a half years, I've met Lloyd Austin more than I have any of my other defence counterparts from around the world. Which is a remarkable thing to say when you imagine that I'm probably one of 20 Defence Ministers around the world who would be saying the same thing about Lloyd. Yeah, I will certainly miss Lloyd, there's no doubt about that. But I'm also very mindful that, you know, the nature of politics around the world is that people are in these jobs for a certain period and there's often change and that's just part of the nature of democracy. And so there'll be a new relationship to build with, with Pete Hegseth and we look forward to the opportunity of doing that. But Lloyd Austin has been an incredible servant for the United States. He's been a great friend for Australia. At a personal level, he's been a really close friend. And I've got no doubt I'll stay in touch with Lloyd Austin into the future.

GILBERT: So, yes, that's the nature of politics. But with that shift, are you worried? Do you have any concern that the incoming Trump Administration have the same sort of laser like focus on this region that it with its own message is America first?

MARLES: I mean, how I would describe Lloyd's effort is one of seeing the importance of American leadership in the world, and that includes this region. But the remarkable way in which Lloyd Austin's gone about his job is that he's been showing leadership in other parts of the world as well. I mean, I think the comments that we make about Lloyd Austin would also be reflected by those in Eastern Europe, as Lloyd has provided steadfast support to Ukraine and its fight against Russia. So, the point here really is American leadership is what the world needs to see. And we are confident that we will see American leadership under the next Trump Administration. That's very much part of how President Trump has articulated his message and that's what we will expect to see from that. And you know, obviously we will be playing our part in talking with the Trump Administration about the issues that are present in our part of the world in the Indo Pacific. But we have a sense of confidence that their issues which are well understood by the incoming Trump Administration. And as I've said to you previously, I look forward to the opportunity of building a relationship with the new US Secretary of Defence.

GILBERT: And do you also see almost an enhanced or greater responsibility on Australia in places like the Pacific, in our own backyard when it comes to the next four years because of China's assertiveness and its efforts to try and boost its influence across the Indo Pacific, but including in the Pacific itself, in our own backyard?

MARLES: Well, what we've often said is that the rules based order, which is very much in Australia's national interest, is an order which has been under pressure around the world. I mean, we see it obviously in the war in Ukraine, but we do see it in the Indo Pacific as well. And so this is a moment where it's really important that countries that stand up for the rules based order do so and do so working with each other. And to go back to your earlier question, that is, for example, why we've put a real focus on building our relationship with Japan. But we are very much wanting to identify ourselves as a country which does see the global rules based order, an order where disputes and differences are not worked out by reference to power and might, but are worked out by reference to international law. I mean, that's what's in the interests of a country like Australia. That's what gives a country like Australia agency. And so we very much stand for that proposition. And it's, you know, we've been doing that over the last few years and we'll continue to do that going forward.

GILBERT: Acting Prime Minister, is that also part of your thinking though, with this idea? Because we've got the climate talks underway at the moment in Azerbaijan. Is this part of the thinking where you want to host a COP, a climate summit with the Pacific islanders alongside? Is that part of your strategic thinking as well?

MARLES: Well, it certainly forms part of building our relationship with the Pacific. I mean, we are seeking on its own terms to play a leadership role in terms of moving the world to net zero emissions by 2050 and Australia playing its own part in that. But you're right that in COP31 and seeking to hold this with the Pacific, this is a big statement in terms of our relationship with them. I mean, for the countries of the Pacific, the single biggest security threat is the existential threat in relation to the change in climate. We are talking about countries which are very much on the front line of the effects of climate change. Low lying coral atolls, for example, like Tuvalu or the Marshall Islands or Kiribati, they are incredibly exposed to changes in the climate. And so we've known for a long time that the ticket to, to engage, if you like, in the Pacific is to have a credible position in relation to global action on climate change. And certainly that starts with our own story in terms of reducing our own emissions. And holding COP jointly with the Pacific is a massive statement about the way in which we seek to navigate the world with them. And that is very important in terms of our strategic circumstances. It matters that the countries of the Pacific see Australia as their natural partner of choice. And this is a perfect example of why they can.

GILBERT: When you speak to the incoming Defense Secretary, Hegseth, Pete Hegseth, what's your priority? What's your message to him?

MARLES: Well, our message will be that American leadership matters and the rules based order around the world is really important. To live in a world where, as I said earlier, differences can be determined through international law is the sort of world which provides for peace, stability and prosperity. It's also the sort of world which gives agency to a country of the size of Australia. I mean, if there is a world which is only determined by power and might, that doesn't leave a lot of space for most countries in the world and countries like Australia. And so the importance of American leadership, which has been there since the Second World War, is the message that I would give to any incoming Secretary of Defense or any new U.S. Administration. But as I said, we're confident that's a role that the President Trump and his administration will seek to play. on to Kevin Rudd.

GILBERT: On to Kevin Rudd, we spoke about it last week, it's continued to get some headlines. Are you comfortable with where things are at? Because I know you're trying to build relationships. The Prime Minister will be, and you need everything working in your favour. Are you comfortable that that's still going to be a positive for Australia, for your efforts in that sense, having Mr. Rudd there?

MARLES: Look, I am Kieran, and as I said to you before, you know, Kevin has done an outstanding job in advocating on behalf of Australia as the Ambassador of Australia to the United States. You know, he's a person of very significant substance. He's a former Prime Minister of Australia, he is taken very seriously in Washington and, for that matter, around the world. But he is taken very seriously in Washington, and that includes with people across the political spectrum, including Republicans. And so Kevin is somebody who's got a long history, for example, in terms of understanding China. He has experience and wisdom, and that is something which has been sought by people across the political spectrum in the United States. So, I think Kevin is well placed to advance our interests, to help us build relationships, and I'm really confident that he will be able to do that ably when the Trump administration is sworn in.

GILBERT: The Government, if we bring the focus back home, is pushing back on this issue of cost of living, launching an advertising campaign today. Essentially, we played it to our viewers earlier and it's saying it's really a negative one, targeting Peter Dutton on cost of living. Is this a sign of things to come? Is it going to be a negative campaign from the Government?

MARLES: Well, we have been making the argument first and foremost about what we have been doing as a Government, which is firstly to deliver two surpluses, something that the coalition never achieved despite promising to do it in each and every year of their term in office. And that is the most important thing that we can do in terms of putting downward pressure on inflation. We need to be waging a war on inflation. And to the extent that we have spent money, it has been on cost of living relief. But it's also important for the Australian public to understand that when we've done that, by and large, we've been doing that in the face of the opposition of Peter Dutton and the Liberals. And had they had their way over the last two and a half years, it is right that households would be something like $7,000 worth of, in terms of the wage increases, that would not be paid, the energy relief which would not be there, the tax cuts that would not be there. And Peter Dutton and the Liberals are going forward right now with a proposition of $315 billion worth of cuts to the budget. When you look at what that represents, we're talking about things like indexation of the age, pension increases in bulk billing. I mean, what Peter Dutton represents is cuts to those things, cuts to Medicare, cuts to access to health in that sense. And it is important that Australians, when they make their choice at some point next year, understand what that choice is. I mean, it is about a government which understands that people are doing it tough and there is so much more which needs to be done and the job is not complete. And we do understand the cost of living pressures that are being faced by people, which is why we've been focused on that. But Peter Dutton at every turn has been opposed to those costs of living relief. And they are an Opposition which would see cuts to the budget on the one hand, but they have a history of being unable to manage the budget on the other.

GILBERT: Acting Prime Minister Richard Marles, appreciate your time. Thanks.

ENDS