Television Interview, Sky News First Edition

SUBJECTS: Ukraine conflict; Energy; Student caps; Annual Cyber Threat Report 

KENNY HEATLEY, HOST: Joining me live is Acting Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles. Good morning to you Acting PM. Thanks for joining us on the program this morning. What do you make of this escalation from Russia regarding the use of nuclear weapons?

RICHARD MARLES, ACTING PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think Kenny, this is absolutely reprehensible on the part of Russia to be even talking about nuclear responses. We've seen this in the past from Vladimir Putin and we're also seeing an escalation in the way in which he is working with North Korea such that we've now got North Korean troops amassing on the Ukrainian border. I mean these are reprehensible actions from a government which took a reprehensible step in the first place in invading illegally its neighbour. And it's really important that we continue to stand with Ukraine, which Australia will, until they are able to resolve this dispute on this conflict on their terms.

HEATLEY: Was it the right move by the Biden Administration to allow Ukraine to strike Russia with attack and missiles?

MARLES: Oh well, I mean let's be clear. Ukraine is the country that was invaded. Ukraine is the country which has been placed under threat by Russia. The invasion by Russia on Ukraine is what was illegal and Ukraine is defending itself. And I'm not about to make a judgement on the way in which Ukraine does defend itself. The country which is talking about an escalation to above a nuclear threshold is Russia. That's what must be condemned today. The country which is bringing troops from North Korea into this conflict is Russia. That's what must be condemned today. And we do condemn that and we do absolutely stand with Ukraine and its defence.

HEATLEY: The Australian Government will not be signing a new agreement on civil nuclear reactor collaboration which was signed by AUKUS partners US and the UK at COP 29. They were expecting us to and they're going all in on nuclear to tackle climate change. Is this making us an outlier from our major allies and other major economies?

MARLES: No, it's not the outlier. Here is Peter Dutton who is looking at walking down a path of pursuing a civil nuclear industry in this country where we don't have one, which wouldn't see any nuclear power in the grid for a couple of decades. If it happened, it might contribute 4% to the grid and it would be the single most expensive form of energy that Australia could pursue. $1,200 additionally to household energy bills. I mean, that's what the outlier here is. I mean, of course we're not participating in an agreement between the United Kingdom and the United States about their own civil nuclear industries when we don't have a civil nuclear industry. And what we're seeing here is the Opposition Leader clearly mischievously trying to conflate a couple of issues here in order to pursue his own domestic agenda and it is that domestic agenda which is an embarrassment.

HEATLEY: Chris Uhlmann's documentary that aired on Sky News last night, the real cost of net zero, highlighted how expensive and unreliable a majority solar and wind powered grid could be. Power bills keep rising. Is the Australian public being misled about the true cost of a majority renewables grid?

MARLES: No. Renewable energy is the cheapest form of energy in the world today. And that's why wherever you go, in terms of developed countries right around the world, North America, Europe, you are seeing countries pursue renewable technology technologies within their grid, firmed renewable technologies to help in the transition to the path of zero net emissions. And we also know the costs of the globe if we don't do that and the costs of the Australian economy. But let's be clear, this is the way the world is moving. Transitioning our own economy is an important contribution that Australia can make. But more significantly than that, it's utterly essential in terms of our own prosperity and our own technology. There are jobs to be had here in this transition. This is not only the pathway to zero net emissions, it is the pathway to modernity. It is the pathway to having greater technology within our economy and within our industry and having more high tech jobs. And so this is what is in Australia's national interest. We're doing this right now. We've seen a 25% increase in renewables in our grid today. The nuclear path that Peter Dutton is suggesting, given that we are starting from scratch, we don't have a civil nuclear industry, is not going to bring on power for two decades. So, it's not going to make any meaningful contribution to the pathway to zero net emissions and it will just cost Australian households a lot more money.

HEATLEY: Now that the coalition is not supporting your international student caps, would you be willing to change migration direction 107?

MARLES: Well, I mean, firstly, what we have seen here with the Coalition and the Greens is genuinely astonishing. I mean, your audience should understand the coalition and the Greens, the Liberals and the Greens are now working together on immigration policy as they are in terms of stopping the building of housing in Australia. They are now working together on immigration policy wherever they can find an opportunity to work together in Parliament House. That's what they're doing. And so, you know, if you're out there and you vote Liberal, or in fact, if you vote Green right here in Canberra, you're effectively voting for the same team. That's what we learned today and that's what we've learned over the last couple of days. We need to be managing our immigration intake. We've had a significant immigration spike in the aftermath of the pandemic. We want to bring it down to the normal levels which existed prior to the pandemic. You can't do that unless you manage the intake of international students, because that is a huge component of those people who are coming to the country. And so all we are trying to do is manage that in a responsible way by pursuing international student caps. And we understand the importance of international education, but it is also really important that we are managing our immigration so that we have the right amount of housing here, that we're not putting pressure on our infrastructure. And that's what we are doing in terms of managing this with international student caps. The Liberals have completely abandoned anything they believe in. I mean, the leader of the Opposition said he would do this in his budget reply, but now he's about wrecking, and he's about wrecking the country with the Greens.

HEATLEY: A new report highlights that overseas cybercriminals and scammers increasingly are targeting Australians. The average cost of cybercrime for individuals has risen 17% to over $30,000, and it's the fastest growing threat to Australians. That is not good, is it?

MARLES: It's not. And it is a real and present threat that we are facing right now. We get a report to the Australian Signals Directorate, which is the agency that deals with this once every six minutes. As you said, the cost of each of these attacks is going up 17% for individuals, 8% for small businesses. And really, worryingly, we're seeing an increased focus by cyber criminals and state actors on our critical infrastructure. So, this is something that we need to be dealing with. The government has pretty well been doubling the size of the Australian Signals Directorate over a period of five years. We really see this as a focus, but today the message for businesses out there is you need to be making sure that you understand what IT systems you have in your business. That might seem obvious, but lots don't. And a legacy system can be, in fact, the backdoor for a cybercriminal to get into your business. It's really important that you keep abreast of your cyber defences. You can't. There's not a set and forget issue here. There's an evolving threat and you need to evolve with it. And it's really important that you work with ASD. They're a national asset. They are the experts and they can help.

HEATLEY: Ok. Acting Prime Minister Richard Marles. Really appreciate your time this morning. Thanks for coming on the program.