Radio interview, 6PR Perth Radio

SUBJECTS: Government Response to the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide.

GARY ADSHEAD, HOST: Okay, now a short time ago Matt Keogh, the Veterans' Affairs Minister of course who is a WA based federal MP and Minister, was joined by the Defence Minister Richard Marles and the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese in the Prime Minister's Courtyard to announce the Government's response to the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. Let's have a chat now to Matt Keogh, the Veterans' Affairs Minister, thanks very much for your time.

MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL, MATT KEOGH: Great to be with you Gary.

ADSHEAD: I'm just going to ask you, I mean what is it you would like the public, those veterans and the families of those veterans to, to consider here in terms of your response and what should they be looking for?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, I think everyone knows that this lengthy Royal Commission has been dealing with some of the most difficult issues confronting serving personnel, veterans and families, especially when it comes to the issue of suicide. And the response of the Royal Commission is detailed and lengthy and the Government understands the significance and importance of making meaningful enduring reform and change in response to this Royal Commission. And it's why less than three months after the Royal Commission handed down its final report with 122 recommendations, seven volumes of report, we have moved quickly because we understand the urgency to deliver the Government's formal response to the Royal Commission so people can see what we are going to do and that we are committed to delivering on that.

ADSHEAD: And in terms of the delivery, just tell people how that will be done through a separate body that's being established already, is that right?

MINISTER KEOGH: Yes. So, we will be implementing these recommendations through Defence, through DVA, but we are also picking up on the final recommendation of the Royal Commission establishing a new Defence and Veterans’ Service Commission. This will provide the necessary oversight of the services provided to support personnel, veterans and families that we are delivering on the intent of the Royal Commission and provide advice to government about how we can continue to improve that service offering and making sure we're dealing with these issues as they evolve for our Defence and veterans community.

ADSHEAD: 104 accepted by the Government. 17 noted. What does that mean?

MINISTER KEOGH: So, there's a number of recommendations there that are the noted recommendations where frankly further work needs to happen for government to be able to progress them. And we're going to be referring those recommendations along with others to a task Force that is being set up as well to advise Government on how we can implement those. Some of them involve engaging with state governments, for example, and some of them just need more detailed work before we're in a position to move them forward. But we recognise the importance of those noted recommendations and that's why we're setting up this separate taskForce. It'll sit in Prime Minister and Cabinet. It's separate to Defence, it's separate to the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, so that we can move forward in relation to all these recommendations that we've agreed, agreed in principle or noted.

ADSHEAD: In terms of one of the recommendations, and of course, something that you're going to go through with. It's the fact that if you are found guilty in the military of, say, sexual offences, there would be a mandatory expulsion. It almost seems a bit incredible to say that one would have thought you would be kicked out of the Defence Force forthwith anyway.

MINISTER KEOGH: You're absolutely right, Gary. I think that's absolutely right. People, I think, rightly, have been a bit surprised by that recommendation, in that they're surprised at the need for that recommendation, and that's why we've agreed to it.

ADSHEAD: What was the process? Court martials, et cetera, military courts, to deal with what happens to someone's career?

MINISTER KEOGH: What would normally happen is that if someone was convicted for an offence like that, they would then go through the normal administrative process for separating that person from the Defence Force. That can take at some time, not a huge amount of time, but it would start that process. But what it hasn't been backed up by is a presumption that if this occurs, you're out, which streamlines that process, but also sends a very clear message to serving members about how those sorts of offences are regarded by the Defence Force in terms of them being fit and proper to continue to serve in our Defence Force. And that's why we've agreed to make this change.

ADSHEAD: And talk about making officers more accountable. What does that mean?

MINISTER KEOGH: So, there's a range of recommendations that really go to leadership within the Defence Force. Obviously, there's some broad recommendations about culture, but there's things about making sure that our leaders in Defence are properly trained around things like emotional intelligence, but also that they're accountable for their actions in terms of how they manage the people under them. It also means that people need to not take steps that are negative towards people that are bringing very legitimate complaints about behaviour within the Defence. People should feel that they can bring forward those complaints legitimately and there won't be negative repercussions for them. And so recommendations go to that as well.

ADSHEAD: Ok, is there a - in terms of dealing with this and what happens after this, you know, clearly being in the military is a robust, a need for a chain of command, a need for discipline. Have you got the balance right in terms of keeping all of those things in place and the importance of them, as opposed to the changes that would be made that some might think, you know, is lessening the toughness of being in a military environment, the discipline that's required, as I said, the chain of command, I mean, have you got to strike a balance here?

MINISTER KEOGH: So, nothing about these recommendations or what we are doing as a government in any way detract from the very important role that the chain of command play in leading our Defence Force, whether they're undertaking operations in peacetime Australia or undertaking operations abroad in wartime or warlike conflicts. But also, our Defence Force is not made up of robots, it's made up of people. And in order to get the best out of that capability, the best out of our people, we also need commanders and leaders that are able to do that. And this is about making sure that we're able to do that, that we're able to get the best out of our personnel who are our most important capability, and make sure that they're looked after at the same time that none of that detracts from the key warfighting capability of our Defence Force.

ADSHEAD: Overall, when you look back at this, the Royal Commission, and all the testimonies that they heard and all the evidence that they gathered, what has gone wrong with the way that we've managed these issues in Defence?

MINISTER KEOGH: I think what we've seen from the Royal Commission has highlighted that there's been a number of reviews over time, but not all of those recommendations from those reviews have been adopted or they haven't been carried through on. And there hasn't been a way of coming back and saying, okay, you said you'd do this, but has it actually happened and is it continuing to happen? And so standing up, as we have today, the Defence and Veterans’ Service Commission, to provide that level of oversight on an ongoing basis is a really important part of what we are doing and in responding to the recommendations of the Royal Commission. And so that goes exactly to the point you raised.

ADSHEAD: And is this in terms of, you know, obviously recruitment's a huge issue for you at the moment. Is this something that you hope will create a better environment for you to go forward as a government and recruit more people?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, certainly, I'm happy to see that the number of people seeking to join the Defence Force at the moment is increasing and it's important to recognise for the vast majority of people who serve in our Defence Force, they have a great experience and they go on after their Defence life to have a great civilian life as well. But it is also, we recognise that where there are things that are going wrong for people, that that becomes a disincentive for some to join our Defence Force. And so cleaning that up, improving the experience of those that are serving and our veterans will, we would like to think, make it mean that people are more likely to want to join our Defence Force. That's sure, that's true, but the reason we're doing it is because it's important to do that work for those people that have been impacted.

ADSHEAD: Minister, just before I let you go, and I'm not trying to trivialise what we've been talking about here, but I do want to ask you a question that's certainly the water cooler discussion around the country at the moment, and that is a massive pub owning company called Australian Venue Co. have put out a statement saying that they want patrons to realise that under no way, under no circumstances, when they open on Australia Day, will they actually be celebrating or acknowledging Australia Day. What do you think of that?

MINISTER KEOGH: Pub companies can do whatever the hell pub companies want to do, Gary. I'm sure, you know, I, like many Australians, will be celebrating and acknowledging Australia Day next year. If private organisations want to do that, that's up to them and I'm sure the public will vote with their feet accordingly as well.

ADSHEAD: All right, I'll let you go. I do appreciate you joining us today and going through that.

MINISTER KEOGH: Great, thank you very much, Gary.

ADSHEAD: That's Veterans' Affairs Minister Matt Keogh.