Television Interview, Afternoon Briefing

SUBJECTS: Government Response to the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide.

HOST, GREG JENNETT: Matt Keogh is with us now in the studio. Welcome back to the programme, Matt. A very comprehensive response to a huge body of work, isn't it? The biggest change, structurally, I guess, comes in establishing this new commission or statutory body to provide independent advice on suicide prevention. What advice is it that you envisage it will be presenting and what sort of person would run it?

MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL, MATT KEOGH: So, this is going to be very important, setting up the Defence and Veterans’ Service Commission, and it will be looking at a whole range of things. I mean, one of the principal things the Royal Commission talks about is making sure that we don't see what has happened in the past where there's been reviews that have had lots of recommendations that then haven't been implemented or have not been followed through by government. And it will have a role in that. It's also going to have a role looking at research. A lot of the recommendations coming out of the Royal Commission report are looking at how we better coordinate research, understand these issues on an ongoing basis. And that will form the basis of how it advises governments. It will be able to conduct its own inquiries, and that means it will be able to bring together that information on an ongoing basis.

JENNETT: So, is it best led by someone from a medical background, a military background, a bureaucrat interested and adept with complex organisations. What sort of person fits?

MINISTER KEOGH: I think the key thing we're looking for is that you've got somebody that is independent and separate from Defence and DVA, but that has an understanding of the impacts of service life on our serving members, veterans and their families as well, and then is able to work with and understand the research requirements, the need and how to conduct proper inquiries. Working with the public service to break through some of the roadblocks that have been there in the past.

JENNETT: Not to diminish the deeply personal nature of what we're dealing with here, but this is the sort of question we would ask on any day in any portfolio, is there a budget cost to all of the structures embedded in these recommendations you're accepting?

MINISTER KEOGH: Certainly there are costs that come with this and a lot of people will see as they work through the recommendations that we've agreed and agreed in principle. A lot of the things that need to happen here are about changing policies within the Department of Defence or within DVA, changing the way it works. It's not about necessarily taking on additional cost, but there are some things that cost in here and there's other things that we also need to work through how they are implemented.

JENNETT: So, have they been costed out yet?

MINISTER KEOGH: So, you'll see. For example, we've noted 17 of the recommendations, there's further work to do there. Some of that work will inevitably be about, well, what's the cost of doing these things? But that's why we've said we're setting up a taskforce in the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet to make sure that we can work through all of those issues. We're not parking those recommendations, we're just saying we acknowledge more work needs to be done on those so that we can move those forward, as well as the things we're able to do within the existing work of the Department of Veterans’ Affairs as well as Defence.

JENNETT: Assuming a lot of this is successful, would you expect a dividend for recruitment into the ADF? Is this culture, for want of a better word, what ails the Defence Department? Is it a turn off, a known turn off to recruitment?

MINISTER KEOGH: Look the way. Firstly, I want to say that following through with these recommendations is not about that. It's about making sure we're looking after our people who are serving and our veterans and their families. And that is the focus of what we're trying to do. But there's no doubt that there is an impact of the discussion of some of these negative issues on our capacity to recruit and certainly fixing those issues would be a positive for recruitment. Having said that, it's important to recognise that for the vast majority of people that serve in our Defence Force, they have very successful careers and they go on to great lives after they've served in the Defence Force as well. And we are already seeing through the work that we're doing, an uplift in the number of people applying to join the Defence Force, which is a great outcome in terms of our recruitment and our retention. The focus of what we're doing here, though, is recognising the important work that needs to happen to support our serving personnel, veterans and families.

JENNETT: Yeah, I understand. Alright, let's turn to sexual violence within the military. There are a lot of recommendations that deal with that. I thought we might have had a good understanding of that problem now, through inquiries into ADFA, culture reviews, Senate inquiries and now the Royal Commission. Why is an all new investigation needed?

MINISTER KEOGH: So, you're absolutely right that the work of a future inquiry can build on inquiries that have happened in the past. But the Royal Commission is clear that it wants there to be a further inquiry to look at what's happened in the intervening period. How have those recommendations from the past been implemented, what further still needs to occur and to sort of really understand those issues going forward. And that will of course help inform the work that the Defence and Veterans’ Service Commission is going to be doing as well. But there's a number of other reforms there, not just the inquiry, and the inquiry will inform some of that work, but the work on the other reforms around sexual misconduct in the Defence Force are very important.

JENNETT: Let's talk about some of the disciplinary aspects surrounding that mandatory expulsion. So, you will immediately accept a recommendation 104 for mandatory discharge of personnel convicted of sexual and related violence. Just wondering, to whom would this apply? Is it retrospective in any way?

MINISTER KEOGH: So, there's sort of two related recommendations there to your question. And so the first one is saying, well, if you're convicted of this sort of offence, there's no place for you in our Defence Force. That's completely unacceptable. And the presumption is that you are therefore going to be leaving. And we already do that with some other things that occur in the Defence Force and it's appropriate that we do it in relation to this sort of offending. One of the other recommendations goes to where some people are convicted outside of the Defence Force. That may not be known to Defence because they may be subsequent to when they've had to do other disclosures. They're supposed to disclose these things and making sure that we've put in place the appropriate systems to best make sure that we're getting that information so we can take that.

JENNETT: So, are there a number of individuals who, for a combination of the reasons you just outlined, might still be in service, but who you know will be affected by this immediate adoption of 104.

MINISTER KEOGH: So, where there is serious, where there is serious criminal conduct like this that someone has engaged in, then their continued service is in question.

JENNETT: Ok. And the Inspector General recommendation, there's last one I'll put to you today, Matt Keogh, you took as noted a recommendation that the Inspector General of Defence, which has immense powers, really, that it not be of a military background as it has been on many occasions previously. Why is that only noted?

MINISTER KEOGH: The reason it's noted is we also need to consider it as against a review that was running parallel to the Royal Commission, which was the 20 year review of the IGADF, the Inspector General and there are some recommendations in that report that are not aligned to the Royal Commission. And so what we've said is we'll give that further thought through the taskforce that we are setting up. So, we're not saying no. We're saying we need to understand what's the best way forward, but we very much understand the need for there to be a separation from the Defence Force. But we also need someone who understands the Defence Force as well. One of the issues that's raised with us often is concern about people being able to have the wool pulled over them. We don't want that either. So, we're not saying no, we're just saying we need to work through that.

JENNETT: Thanks for clearing that up. Look, as I said at the beginning, there's a lot to get through and that will be the work of many years to come. I really appreciate your explanations on all of this, Matt Keogh, and throughout the year, thanks for joining us.

MINISTER KEOGH: Thank you very much. 

END