Radio Interview, 6PR Perth Live

SUBJECTS: AUKUS; Collins Class Submarines; Supporting Australian Defence Industry; Peter Dutton’s Referendum Proposal. 

[EXCERPT OF MALCOLM TURNBULL]

OLIVER PETERSON, HOST: Who are these dumb guys who agreed to this deal? Well, I don't know if he's talking about my next guest, the Deputy Prime Minister, Richard Marles, who's here in Perth today. Good afternoon.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon, Oly, how are you?

PETERSON: I'm all right. You're not one of those dumb guys, are you?

MARLES: Well, I think one thing we've learnt is that former Prime Ministers are going to have their say and I guess they get that right, having led the nation. But respectfully, I obviously disagree considerably with what Malcolm Turnbull has to say. I mean, there are a couple of points here. One is that the agreement that we have with the United States and the United Kingdom is underpinned by a treaty between our three countries. But the most important point here is that what we had at the end of the Abbott Turnbull Morrison government really was a capability gap that opened up in relation to our submarines. I mean, they were in and out of a deal with Japan and then they were in and out of deal with France. They didn't actually settle on any fix to this until eight years into their government. And there was no prospect when we came to power of there being a nuclear‑powered submarine in our fleet until the early 2040s. The Collins class submarines, which are our existing submarines, when they were originally built, were due to come to their end of their life in the 2020s, right now. So, there's a gap and there was no answer to the gap. Malcolm Turnbull's not providing an answer to the gap. None of what he just said then provides an answer. What this arrangement does is see Virginia class submarines come under an Australian flag not in the early 2040s, but in the early 2030s. And through an intelligent extending of life of the Collins class, we can now move forward with an evolving submarine capability where there is no gap. Now, you know, that's something that we've managed to put together since we've come to power. It is in a totally different place to what we inherited from, amongst others, Malcolm Turnbull.

PETERSON: Speaking of the Collins class submarines, I see that your counterpart, Andrew Hastie, in the Liberals ranks is concerned that you've kept the “LOTE lite” he's calling it, revised upgrade plan hidden from Australians at a critically challenging time for our strategic circumstances. Are we going to be caught short?

MARLES: No. I mean there is a challenge as I've just articulated in relation to extending the life of Collins. I mean it was– the Collins class submarines were built in the late nineties, early 2000s and they imagined that they would come to their end of life around now. And so, you know, it is a challenge to extend their life out. And it's not just a matter of getting them to the early 2030s when the first of the Virginias comes online, we've actually got to extend them beyond that as we kind of shift boat by boat from what we have now to ultimately a fully nuclear‑powered fleet, and so there is a very significant extension of life which needs to be undertaken. Whenever this happens, the submarines go in for a considerable amount of time. They’re opened right up, new equipment, the latest equipment is put inside them. It's a process that takes a couple of years. And so what's important there is that you have a very careful balance between getting the newest equipment you can onto those submarines whilst at the same time getting the submarines out of the door so that they can actually be operating. Now we need to manage that properly, as we have been doing in the past with full cycle docking, but I think the pressure is even greater with a life of type extension. That said, we feel we can meet this challenge. Right now, the first boat that is– the first submarine that's going through this process is HMAS Farncomb. The expectation at the moment is that it will go through a full life of type extension. But at the end of the day what we are seeking to do across the entire class is to have an evolving submarine capability. That is to say that as every day goes by, our submarine capability grows. That's really the measure here. And we think that we can achieve that through both building our future nuclear‑powered submarines in Australia, by acquiring in service submarines from the United States, the Virginias, and through extending the life of Collins.

PETERSON: And with a new administration in the United States, has it changed the game, Deputy Prime Minister, in terms of those negotiations, not just that commitment to AUKUS, but of course making sure that we have the proper capabilities here in Australia off our shores until obviously these new nuclear subs eventually come online?

MARLES: Well, fundamentally I don't think it has. I mean there is a new administration. There's definitely a process of going through– working with the new administration around where AUKUS was up to, how we see AUKUS going forward. That's in a sense no different to what we've done with the United Kingdom where they've had a change of government in the middle of last year and they've gone through their own assessment of where AUKUS is at and their engagement with it. But both in the UK and the US with the changes of government, you've got new administrations, new governments which are fundamentally committed to AUKUS. And you saw that when I met with my counterpart Pete Hegseth in Washington a month or so ago, where there was really strong support for AUKUS and what it's trying to achieve. And ultimately this is a really good deal for Australia because it gives us the biggest leap forward in our military capability that we will have had, really, since the establishment of the Navy back in 1913. But it is a good deal for America as well because it will facilitate an increased rate of production of US Virginia class submarines into the US Navy. And because it works for all three countries is ultimately why there is support across the board in all three countries.

PETERSON: And in terms of that leap forwards, you have been here in Perth today as it is, pardon the pun, full steam ahead, even though there's not going to be steam involved with this in terms of capability in our southern suburbs, in the construction. 

MARLES: Yeah, what we're doing is seeing companies across Australia now being qualified to participate in the supply chain to build American Virginia class submarines. This is part of getting the production rate up in America. So, we're at a company called VEEM this morning at Canning Vale. They make a whole lot of, you know, precision metal castings, very complex components, valves and the like, propellers. They participate in Australian defence industry right now. They provide parts for the Royal Australian Navy. But they are going through a process of getting qualified where they will be able to supply direct into the US supply chain to help build the US Virginia class submarines. And that's a really exciting opportunity for them. It's important for us because what it means is that that company is gaining the skills necessary to help build our own submarines when we are building them in Australia. But this is jobs right now – high skilled, high paid jobs in Canning Vale, helping build Virginia class submarines in the United States and building the skills necessary for us to build them, in due course, here in Australia. And in that sense, this is exactly what AUKUS is about. I mean, it's a great uplift in our military capability, but it's a great uplift in our industrial capability as well.

PETERSON: And despite Donald Trump's tariffs on obviously at this stage, steel and aluminium, you're confident that they'll still be buying what is manufactured here in Canning Vale to develop that class of submarine in the United States?

MARLES: Oh, look, I am. Because what they need is to see their supply chain grow. I mean, what we heard today from Huntington Ingalls, which is the largest naval shipbuilder in the United States, and they are the company that is currently qualifying companies here in Australia to work with them and with the other builder in America, called Electric Boat. They have about two and a half thousand suppliers to their facility in Newport News in Virginia, which is where they build the submarines. I mean, they're saying if they can get that up by a few hundred, that greatly increases their ability to make submarines there at the rate that they need to. And having those Australian companies qualified to do that work is really just hugely beneficial for them. So, because it makes sense for America and because it makes sense for Australia, that's why this deal is going to go ahead. I mean, it is a good deal all round. And that's why I think Australians can have a sense of confidence that AUKUS is happening under the Trump Administration. And, you know, like what we've now seen is from the moment that AUKUS was first announced back in October of 2021, there have actually been changes in government in now Australia, the UK and the US and AUKUS is still happening, which is how it was always imagined, because it enjoys bipartisan support across the political spectrum in all three countries.

PETERSON: Deputy Prime Minister, do we need a referendum over deporting convicted criminals who hold dual citizenships?

MARLES: Look, this is a Peter Dutton thought bubble, which really didn't make it to lunchtime. I mean, it would appear that Michaela Cash thinks we don't and she's part of Peter Dutton's team. I mean, almost, from the moment that this idea has been floated, there is division within the Liberals themselves about whether it should happen. This doesn't make any sense. We have legislation in place which enables citizenship to be stripped from dual citizens already in circumstances, and that actually was supported by the Coalition in the Parliament. What this is, is really a kind of harebrained thought bubble from Peter Dutton to try and distract from the fact that he has absolutely nothing to say and has had nothing to say around the issue of the cost of living, which has been the issue that's obviously dominated in Australia over the last three years. It's been the key focus of our government. And other than opposing pretty well everything we've done in this space, he's got nothing positive to say about what he would do. And so instead we're treated to these really silly ideas which haven't even been worked through with his own side, which aren't going to make any difference at all.

PETERSON: Deputy Prime Minister, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

MARLES: Good to talk to you, Oly.

ENDS