Television Interview, Sunday Agenda, Sky News

SUBJECTS: Albanese Government Ministry; Immigration centre detainee charged; Hamas-Israel conflict; US Presidential election; AUKUS; MRH-90 incident anniversary; Afghanistan Inquiry; Economy.

ANDREW CLENNELL, HOST:  Well to talk more about the changes in the US and the Cabinet reshuffle to be announced by the PM this afternoon, I'm joined now by Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles. Richard Marles, thanks for your time.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Andrew.

CLENNELL: I'll come to US politics with you in a moment, but let's start with this reshuffle. Are Clare O'Neil and Andrew Giles gone from their portfolios? And is this a sign that you need a change politically in these roles? Previously you've said they were good ministers.

MARLES: Well, they're both very good ministers. Look, what we've seen is the retirement of Linda Burney, of Brendan O'Connor and Carol Brown. All three have had fantastic careers over a very long period of time. Both Carol Brown and Brendan O'Connor have been colleagues of mine since I entered Parliament and, of course, Linda Burney had a colossal career in the NSW Parliament before joining the federal Parliament. And it's really their retirements which have occasioned an opportunity to have a refresh. Now, the caucus has been going through its processes, the Prime Minister going through his and obviously all of that will be announced later today.

CLENNELL: There's a report in the Sunday Telegraph this morning of a drug running operation run by a detainee at a Villawood immigration detention centre. That's quite a shocking revelation, isn't it? Is this another sign the Government isn't quite in control of the immigration system?

MARLES: Well, certainly this is something which needs to be stopped, but it's also now a consequence of a very successful operation that's been run by the Australian Border Force in cooperation with our police forces. We're very pleased with the outcome of this operation, but certainly what was being revealed and what has been stopped is completely unacceptable. I mean, these things occur, but what matters is that our authorities are working on them and are able to bring them to a close and there will be significant consequences for those involved.

CLENNELL: Once this reshuffle is done and dusted, will the Home Affairs department remain intact in its current form?

MARLES: Well, again, I'm not about to preempt that, Andrew. That's all a matter for the Prime Minister to announce, which he'll do later today. So, all of this is going to be revealed in a matter of hours. I think what's important here, though, is there is an opportunity to refresh the front bench. The Prime Minister is taking that opportunity. But this comes after a remarkably stable ministry throughout the first term of the Albanese Government. This reshuffle is occurring because members have said that they will not be standing again at the next election. All of that is in real contrast to what we saw under the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government, what we’re seeing from the Dutton opposition now–

CLENNELL: It is indeed, Minister Marles. But if I can, I just want to go to you again on that because, interesting you didn't just point blank say, look, the Home Affairs department is staying as it is. It sounds to me there's a change afoot on that front. Are you pulling apart the Home Affairs department? Is that what the PM's– one of the things the PM's doing this afternoon? Will Home Affairs exist as a standalone portfolio after this?

MARLES: All is going to be revealed later today and I'm not going to preempt any of that. These are matters that are decided by the Prime Minister, as you know, and we can speculate on them now but in a sense it’s idle, because literally in a matter of hours, all of this is going to become public.

CLENNELL: As I’ve just reported, the reshuffle, apart from perhaps that Home Affairs change, generally seems to come across as a bit minimalist – in terms of the big players, like yourself stay in the same positions. Why has the PM decided not to go more broad brush with a reshuffle in the lead up to an election and a new term?

MARLES: Well, this will see a refresh – it will see a refresh in terms of new names coming into the ministry, inevitably as a result of the retirements of Linda Burney and Brendan O'Connor. But we do pride ourselves on stability. I mean, we saw a revolving door of ministries and ministers under the former government. We saw that particularly in Defence, for example, where we had really six, seven, actually different Defence ministers during the course of their nine years. Government needs stability. You need consistency in decision making and we pride ourselves on that. You need to refresh as well and we're doing that. But, you know, the difference here is there's been retirements, a process has been gone through in a matter of a week, a refresh is happening, people are appointed. That's orderly, good government. You know what we saw and what we have seen under Peter Dutton over the last three years, he's had ministers retire, he's been unable to fill positions because he's not had the authority within his own party room to make the necessary decisions to do that. That is a recipe for dysfunction and that is the alternative which is being presented to the Australian people and it flows from what we saw during a chaotic nine years, ten years almost under the Abbot-Turnbull-Morrison government. This stands as a process. In stark contrast. 

CLENNELL: I've reported this morning Malarndirri McCarthy and Jenny McAllister are being promoted. McCarthy to the Cabinet, McAllister to the Ministry. What would you like to say about those two?

MARLES: Well, again, I'm not about to preempt the announcements that will be made later today by the Prime Minister. I mean, obviously, both Malarndirri and Jenny have been exemplary in the roles that they've played as assistant ministers, along with the rest of the team in the assistant ministry. I mean, we're really blessed with significant talent, not just in the outer ministry, amongst the assistant ministers, but on the backbench as well. And that's something that is sometimes a problem in terms of who to promote, but it's a very good problem for this Government to have, and we're very lucky for the talent that we've got. And the two people that you've mentioned are very good examples of that.

CLENNELL: The Opposition likes having Chris Bowen where he is, in energy. He's, I guess, a polarising figure. Why is he staying there, as I've reported, isn't that a bit of a risk for the Government?

MARLES: Well, Chris Bowen has done a fantastic job as the minister responsible for action on climate change and the minister responsible for energy. It's a difficult portfolio. I mean, the problem that we are trying to deal with here, which is walking down a path of decarbonising our economy, putting ourselves on a meaningful path to net zero emissions by 2050, that's obviously a very difficult problem set that any minister in this job has to face. And Chris has done this with enormous energy, with great intelligence and with great skill. The fact that it's a difficult portfolio is there for everyone to see, but Chris has always been somebody who has been across policy detail, who knows how to get things done, and he's doing a great job in this role.

CLENNELL: Turning now to Israel and Palestine. The Australian, New Zealand and Canadian governments put out that statement late on Friday ahead of this contentious NSW Labor Conference Palestine debate calling for a ceasefire in Gaza once again. Now, one of the fears in your government has been put to me is war between Israel and Hezbollah. We've seen a strike in the Golan Heights by Hezbollah overnight. What's your reaction to that?

MARLES: Well, we've consistently been advocating internationally, to Israel directly, to see this not escalate. All of us have been around the international community have been anxious about the risk of escalation and the risk of escalation on the northern side of Israel with Hezbollah. So, we've been very clear in our advocacy to Israel in relation to this, as we have more generally, as you've referred to, about needing to see an end to this tragedy, seeing a permanent ceasefire. And we continue to work very hard in relation to that. What's playing out in the Middle East, what's been playing out in Gaza is obviously a human tragedy. We very much support the peace plan that's been put forward by President Biden. We look at what has transpired in the United States over the last few days, and there is some sense of optimism. But ultimately what we need to see is an end to this conflict, an end to the tragedy which is playing out in the Middle East and that's what we're calling for.

CLENNELL: What's your reaction to the calls by the Labor Conference for a Palestinian state?

MARLES: Well, we've been really clear about that as well. I mean, we want to see a Palestinian state, but we want to see it in the context of a two state solution, in the context of a negotiated peace. And that's been the longstanding principle of Labor over a very long period of time, as it has, in fact, for the Liberal Party as well. A two state solution has been bipartisan policy in this country for decades. And really, it is the only answer. You've got two peoples who will need to live together. They cannot escape that. And a two state solution is the answer to it. And so we definitely want to see a Palestinian state, but it needs to come in the context of a process towards a two state solution, which involves a negotiated peace, which enables Israel to live securely behind its borders.

CLENNELL: Let me ask you now about US politics. Have you had much to do with Kamala Harris? What do you make of her entering the race? Did Joe Biden do the right thing by standing down?

MARLES: Well, I've had the opportunity to meet Kamala Harris, and she's certainly a very impressive person, as you would expect as the Vice President of the United States. I mean, we will watch as this now plays out with the Democratic Convention between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump, we will watch the election play out over the course of the remainder of this year. I think the important point to make is that whatever the outcome of that election is, I'm confident about the enduring nature of the Alliance, but particularly I'm confident that our equities within the Alliance, such as AUKUS, front and center, will be maintained. And we've got to give the American people the space to go through the process, which is their elections. We expect that space to be given to us when we have our own processes. So, we'll all be riveted by it but it is ultimately a matter for them, I think, in terms of President Biden clearly, this was a very difficult decision for him to make. I had the opportunity to meet President Biden a couple of weeks ago during the NATO Conference. But, you know, I think what you see there is a man who has had half a century of public service in the United States making a decision which is ultimately, as he sees it, about the best interests of his nation, ahead of the best interests of himself. And that's something to admire.

CLENNELL: What reassurance does your Government or Ambassador have that Donald Trump would back in AUKUS if elected?

MARLES: Well, you know, we speak across the political spectrum in the United States, as you would expect us to, as obviously countries do when they come to Australia. That's the nature of how to engage with democracies. And whenever we are speaking with those in the Trump camp, there is nothing but positivity towards the AUKUS arrangement. But perhaps the better test of that is what we saw at the end of last year when legislation passed the United States Congress which enabled AUKUS to proceed, which enabled, for example, the sale of the three Virginia class submarines to Australia, but has seen the creation of a seamless defence industry environment between our two countries. Now, that legislation was supported across the political spectrum in the Congress by Democrats and Republicans and by Trump Republicans. So, there's actually runs on the board, you know, there is actually actions, not words, that we can already see which demonstrates support for AUKUS. So, for all those reasons, we do have a sense of confidence that not only will the Alliance endure no matter who is elected in November, but our equities in the Alliance, AUKUS being front and centre, will prevail as well.

CLENNELL: Now, it's a year today since the Taipan crash that killed four Australian service people. Do you want to reflect on that? And the relatives of those killed have raised concerns about the slowness in having an independent inquiry on this up and running after the Defence inquiry. What do you expect any inquiry to find?

MARLES: Well, firstly, I thank you for asking the question, Andrew, because this is a significant day. It's a very difficult day for the families of Captain Lyon, Lieutenant Nugent, Warrant Officer Laycock and Corporal Naggs. These four Australians, who had given great service to our country wearing our nation's uniform, lost their lives a year ago today. I know that this is a really difficult day for their families, for the 6th Aviation Regiment, of which they were a part. And it's a reminder that the work that our men and women who wear our uniform do is dangerous, even when they're engaging in exercises and their service, and indeed, their sacrifice is as meaningful as that of anyone who has worn our nation's uniform. The inquiry in relation to this proceeds, it needs to take the time that it takes because we need to find out what happened here and we need to learn the lessons. It's really important that those lessons are learnt for future safety. And we don't do that off the back of speculation, we do it off the back of facts and this is just going to take the time that it takes. But obviously we work with the families to let them know how the investigations are proceeding and they will continue to go on until we get the answers behind this terrible tragedy.

CLENNELL: And speaking of time and inquiries, it's been more than a year that we've been waiting for a decision from you on whether or not to strip medals from servicemen accused of being conducting war crimes in Afghanistan, including Ben Roberts-Smith. Surely it's time you made that decision. Will you be making that decision before the election?

MARLES: Well, I will be making the decision before the election, I can tell you that. I'll be making that decision soon. Just to be clear, this is a decision not in relation to the person that you mentioned, but in relation to those who had command authority. Again, that is a process that I've wanted to go through thoroughly to make sure that we get the answers to this right. It is one that has been on my desk and we've been going through in an enormous amount of detail, but it won't be long before we are able to make those decisions and certainly they'll be made before the election.

CLENNELL: Just finally, we have these CPI figures out on Wednesday, which will go a long way to determining if we have another rate hike next week. Is the whole Government sweating on this number?

MARLES: Look, I mean, as you know, obviously the interest rates are matters that are independently determined by the Reserve Bank. So, that's a matter for them. We're not going to intervene in that process. Look, our focus is on what we can do, and what we can do is to be putting downward pressure on inflation. We've done that first and foremost by delivering two surplus budgets. That's something which the former government never achieved. The Liberals did not do that. Our prudence in the way in which we are managing our fiscal decisions is the most significant thing we can do in relation to inflation and to the extent that we are spending money. that is first and foremost around easing the pressures of the cost of living. And so, we will continue to do what we can do in what is obviously the most pressing issue facing Australians today, and that is the cost of living challenges that people are experiencing.

CLENNELL: Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles, thanks so much for your time this morning on Sunday Agenda.

MARLES: Thanks, Andrew.