Television Interview, Sky News

SUBJECTS: AUKUS cooperation agreement; US election; Paul Keating’s comments; Coalition’s nuclear energy plan.

HOST PETER STEFANOVIC: Well, Defence Minister Richard Marles has signed off on a critical deal that formally allows the transfer of at least three Virginia class nuclear submarines from the US to Australia sometime in the 2030s. Joining us live from Vancouver now, he's moved on from DC, that's the Deputy Prime Minister right there and the Defence Minister Richard Marles. Richard, good to see you. Thanks for your time. So, you're coming home with a deal when you eventually come home. How watertight is it?

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER RICHARD MARLES: Well, this is the legal underpinning of the arrangement that we reached in March of last year, which will see Australia acquire three Virginia class submarines, as you say, in the 2030s, as well as acquiring nuclear reactors from Rolls Royce which will form part of the submarines that we construct in Adelaide. It also affirms that Australia will meet its international obligations in terms of non-proliferation, but also in respect of the Rarotonga treaty. So, this is actually a foundational document, which is the legal treaty level underpinning the optimal pathway which we announced last year. So, it's a very significant moment on the road to delivering this.

STEFANOVIC: So, a legal underpinning. But could a potential protectionist Trump presidency unwind it?

MARLES: Well, this is an agreement between three nations, but I think the point to make in terms of what plays out in America, obviously, they're going through their election process now and we need to give America the space to do that. But when we look at the actions of both teams, both candidates in this contest, there is support both for the alliance within Australia, but also the equities that we have within that and principally AUKUS. And we saw that in the Congress, in the legislation that was passed through the Congress at the end of last year, which at an American level, has enabled a whole lot in terms of the provision of the Virginia class submarines, for example, to Australia. That was legislation that was supported across the political spectrum in the US, including republicans, including Trump Republicans. You know, we have some confidence about whatever the future holds.

STEFANOVIC: But, you know, he likes to go his own way sometimes.

MARLES: We are really confident about whatever the future will hold in terms of whoever is elected in November of this year in the United States. And we derive that confidence from not only, you know, the conversations that have been had across the political spectrum, but also the actions that have been behind those conversations and those statements and we saw those actions in the Congress last year.

STEFANOVIC: Does Paul Keating give you an eye twitch these days with these days, Richard Marles?

MARLES: No, I mean, look, Paul Keating, one of Australia's great Prime Ministers, has a right to express his view whenever he wants, I’m totally cool with that. 

STEFANOVIC: Now just to some of his comments last night. So, he's piped up again, folks, if you've missed it, he's accused Australia of selling out over this deal and becoming the 51st state of America. So, Richard Marles, has our military control been handed over to Washington now?

MARLES: Well, absolutely not. And obviously characterising our relationship with the United States in that way is not right, nor is it fair. What we are doing is working very closely with the United States of course. Our Alliance is very central to our foreign policy, to our national security. It has been for the better part of a decade. It certainly was during the time that Paul Keating was the Prime Minister of Australia, but that cooperation is really important now, given the complexity of the strategic circumstances that we face. But what we are trying to do in terms of our defence policy, in terms of our strategic policy, is to make our contribution to the collective security of the region in which we live, the Indo Pacific, and to make sure that we are able to resist any coercion that might be put upon us by any future potential adversary. That is the strategic problem that we are trying to solve and all the decisions that we're making are about that. And ultimately at the heart of that is Australia's national interest and Australia's national security.

STEFANOVIC: Ok, a question of curiosity here, Minister. Why wasn't this announced at AUSMIN with all the other Ministers a couple of days ago?

MARLES: Well, what we have done with the UK and the US was part of the arrangements under AUKUS. Obviously AUSMIN is a bilateral engagement between Australia and the US. So, I mean, they were separate things really. I mean, AUKUS does come up in the context of AUSMIN but it was really the construct in which we were doing it.

STEFANOVIC: Just a final one here on the timeframe. Are we locked? I mean, we're not really locked on anything it is just sometime in the 2030s. But this deal today, does it bring it forward at all? Does it blow it out? Where are we sitting there, just finally.

MARLES: No, no. It doesn't change what we announced in March of last year. What this is, is the foundational legal underpinning of that announcement, if you like. I mean, this is the treaty level agreement between the three countries, which sees that what we agreed in March of last year actually happens. I mean, in that sense, it really is a foundational document. It is hugely important. But I think, I think really the point to take from this is that this is another critical step down the pathway of delivering AUKUS, and AUKUS is happening.

STEFANOVIC: Ok, now you got that Rolls Royce nuclear reactor coming. Why not just get a nuclear industry going? You're going to have to service it.                          

MARLES: They're very different things. I know that there is an attempt by the Opposition to conflate this. And the point to make here, Pete, is what we're talking about is eight nuclear reactors which will be there to power eight single machines. To draw some equivalence between that and a civil nuclear industry which is designed to power cities is really like saying there's an equivalence between a car engine and a coal fired power plant because they both actually burn hydrocarbons. I mean, they are totally different. They are designed for different things. We are walking down this path because this is the only way we can get the long range submarine capability that we need. When we're talking about powering our cities, a nuclear industry would be the single most expensive pathway to achieve that. And there are many other options available to us which can achieve the same end, reduce emissions and do so at a much cheaper price. And so that's where the Government is going. I mean, at the end of the day, the civil nuclear industry, which is being advocated by Peter Dutton and the Liberals, is economic insanity and it is a recipe for high power prices for individual Australians. And that is not a path that the Albanese Government is going to walk down.

STEFANOVIC: I'm getting in trouble. I've gone way over time. Richard Marles, always good to talk to you, though. Thank you so much. Enjoy Vancouver, great city.

ENDS