Joint Press Conference - South Pacific Defence Ministers' Meeting

SUBJECTS: South Pacific Defence Ministers' Meeting; Middle East conflict; Diplomatic immunity between New Zealand and Australia 

NEW ZEALAND MINISTER FOR DEFENCE, JUDITH COLLINS: Thank you. So, this is the ninth time that Ministers from across the South Pacific have come together to discuss the issues very important to our region and the South Pacific Defence Ministers Meeting continues to strengthen its position as the premier defence ministerial dialogue of the South Pacific as we drive Pacific-led responses to our shared security challenges. It has been great to have the Pacific Island forum, or PIF, Secretary General attend the meeting as a guest this year, which is the first time this has happened, it's important to us as members that we forge close links with PIF to ensure we are working to enhance regional priorities. At the meeting this year, we have traversed a range of issues with interoperability as a key thing, and a key question that we've been grappling with is how we work together in the South Pacific to meet future challenges ahead. That could be responding to climate events, transnational organised crime or other maritime security threats. Whatever it is, we are better when we work together. One of the key outcomes of this year's meeting is the Pacific Response Group. This group will train together and deploy to assist in humanitarian disasters in the region at the request of affected states. Ultimately, the Pacific Response Group embodies the overarching benefit of SPDMM that we are stronger when we face challenges together as a region. ‘Working together’ is the theme of the publication that I am proud to release today alongside my fellow Ministers, titled ‘How Militaries across the South Pacific are responding to Non-Traditional Threats’, that tells the history of the South Pacific Defence Ministers Meeting, as well as stories of how we have collaborated in times of need. The past three days have been a reminder of how our neighbourhood is not a benign, strategic environment, if it ever was, and how it is becoming more and more complex, but I'm confident that we have the will and the means to meet any challenges ahead as a group. I'd like to invite my fellow Ministers, they are here for you to ask questions as well, and we're happy to take those. But I would say to you, please, we want to make sure that we know that there are some domestic or international questions that you might have in this or the press, but we would like to answer those after we have answered your questions on the South Pacific Defence Ministers meeting. Over to you. 

JOURNALIST: Minister Collins, Kia Ora, nice to see you all today. May I ask about the Pacific Response Group? Will this initiative need to go to PIF for sign off as it were, or what happens on that? Is there a special session where they will need to sign it off? What is the relationship there? 

COLLINS: Well, it can't be, because PIF is obviously close with SPDMM, but this is the South Pacific Defence Ministers Meeting. Chile and France are both members of SPDMM, but they're not members of PIF for instance. This is a different organisation, but we do believe it's important to have good coordination. But if there's any other answers on that Minister Marles might have, because this is something that we discussed last year at Australia's urging and we have taken it all on board. Perhaps you'd like to speak to that. Richard. 

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, RICHARD MARLES: Well, thanks, Judith, so the answer your question is that it is the South Pacific Defence ministers meeting which has sovereignty here, and has made this decision, and it really is one of the key outcomes of our meeting here in Auckland over the last three days. And what this will now see established is a small advance coordinating unit that will be based in Brisbane, which will at this point comprise all the representatives of the South Pacific Defence Ministers Meeting with Chile as an observer, and this team will be able to ensure that if there is a contingency, and we're really thinking about; natural disasters, cyclones, that kind of event, they'll be able to be there immediately and work out what units or other support has to be provided by the various militaries of the region, how that can be most efficiently done, and then see those follow on units come into place as quickly as possible. The point here really is that as we've watched natural disasters play out in our region, there is unquestionably a sense of wanting to provide support and help almost instantaneously. But sometimes countries can kind of be overwhelmed with the love and it does require coordination from the get go, and that's really what the Pacific Response Group is going to do. It also, I think, starts taking us down a path of much greater interoperability of our defence forces, but in fact, much greater integration of our defence forces. And the reason that's important is because we have a relatively small population across this table responsible for a very significant piece of global real estate and in order to provide security over that kind of area, we really do need to have the most efficient military community we can possibly provide. And this is really a very significant step down that path. So it's a major outcome for this meeting.

JOURNALIST: What are the resources each country will provide to the Response Group? 

MARLES: Yeah, good question. So at this point, we're talking in terms of that standing advance group. We're talking about a couple people from each country and that will be based in Brisbane. What we then are looking at, is larger contributions, which would follow on depending on what the scenario is, if you like, be ready to follow on. Those groups will exercise during the course of the next 12 to 18 months and we’ll find an appropriate opportunity for that to occur. And there you're talking about it’s more hundreds of people involved in that kind of exercise, and it's really what each of the defence forces can commit in terms of that. But as I said at the start, all the defence forces are committing with Chile as an observer. And so this is something which will have a pacific character from the outset. 

JOURNALIST: I think you said Minister at the beginning that it will be at the request of if there's a cyclone, hurricane whatever, it will be at the request of that. But do you expect it to be a topic that PIF will, you know will be on the next agenda. Do they need to sign off? 

COLLINS: I mean, obviously there is seriously no sign off, because this is very much a sovereign, sovereign issue for us. But also the Secretary General of PIF was here for many of these discussions today. Clearly this is the sort of role that we want to play in making sure that we're there to help and that we do so, and as Minister Marles said, in a coordinated manner. So everyone's not rushing in with the help they think people might need, when actually we get to know who's doing what, and that we don't duplicate and we don't overwhelm the recipient country, which could well be New Zealand, for instance, or Australia, or any of the other nations here, by rushing to give them what we think, rather than making sure we give them what they want. 

JOURNALIST: [Inaudible]

COLLINS: And there are instances in the past which we won’t go into, but where there has been just the odd overwhelming of love.

JOURNALIST: Minister, I was just wondering, did AUKUS come up in discussions, and was it deemed to be of benefit or disadvantage to the region?

COLLINS: Well, thank you. Lachlan. No, it did not come up in discussions but it is something that many people would think in the Pacific will play an important role in the security of the Pacific, but it didn't come up in discussions.

JOURNALIST:  And then just on that, there's been increasing, I guess, interest, economic interest in the deep sea, in the bio aspect, did that come up in discussions at all. And how would you look to monitor that?

COLLINS: Well, I think that's a very good point. So many people will know that we have the fourth largest economic zone ourselves in the world. If we all add them together, we must be the largest, by far, of any group of small nations in many ways. And of course, the seabed, particularly around the ring of fire is full of minerals and resources as well as fish. So we've certainly just briefly mentioned it, but it is very important to understand that when nations choose to use their own resources that they are themselves either doing it, or they're receiving something for that. And I think we all know that we have a major issue with the unregulated, illegal and unrecorded fishing in the South Pacific is a major issue for the countries here, and that we certainly don't want to see that same sort of thing happening to our mineral resources. 

JOURNALIST: Transnational organised crime. Anyone at the table? What is the opportunity here for the member states of this Response Group, something I'm interested in Minister. But you know, we have massive cocaine pickups, our defence last year, our biggest haul ever of cocaine that we picked up. What is the opportunity in terms of transnational organised crime? 

COLLINS: I'll pass to you Mr. Marles, anyone else would like to comment?

MARLES: So we definitely spoke about transnational organised crime. And it is, I mean, it's been a significant feature of the Pacific for a long time, but it is something which is becoming more acute, I think, in terms of the Pacific Response Group specifically, it is really conceived in terms of responding to particular contingencies. But we spoke a lot about maritime domain awareness, about ways in which we can progress ship riding agreements which exists between a number of nations within the Pacific, and in that sense, build a network of both awareness and enforcement, which allows us to have a greater sense of what's going on in terms of transnational organised crime and how we can respond to it. It is definitely one of the key issues, which is seizing us and seizing the Pacific, but which is certainly seizing us as a group of Ministers. And there is definitely a role for the military to the Pacific to be able to assist in combating it. It's not wholly a defence job. Obviously, the police networks of the region have had the lead really here, and Border Force agencies of various countries will have a role to play as well. And next March in Papua New Guinea, there's a meeting of all of those heads of all of those agencies from all of our countries which will look further into this but there is a contribution that defence can make, and that certainly was a key part of our discussion over the last three days. 

JOURNALIST: A generic question to all Ministers. China recently test launched an ICBM missile into the Pacific. What's the region's response to this? And are such assertive activities deemed acceptable by members?

COLLINS: Well, yes, that was certainly discussed. We see this the first time in 44 years that China has launched intercontinental ballistic missile at a very large range into just above the territory is very, very significant. It certainly is unwanted, unnecessary and unhelpful that that happened, and I guess it really does underscore the fact that we do not live in a benign strategic environment, and that we are living in a very heavily contested geopolitical area. We clearly are countries that want to make sure that we do the best by our people but that we also respect the rule of law, we respect the law of the sea, and that the international rules based order is certainly under a lot of pressure at the moment, and it does none of our countries any good for us not to be supportive of that. 

JOURNALIST: Minister what steps will or can be taken in response?

COLLINS: Well, that's really a Minister of Foreign Affairs question. From our point of view, we've noted what's happened. New Zealand was advised about two hours before it happened. Many other countries over whose zones it flew were not advised. I think it's really important in the Pacific, we expect and we give respect. 

JOURNALIST: A generic question for the panel again, what does this group hope to achieve with regards to innovative maritime technology developments?

COLLINS: We had a fantastic display, didn't we. Yes, everyone agrees, on Tuesday, held at the Devonport Naval Base. The New Zealand Defence Industry Association brought some of their people and their fabulous tech and our military as well to show about some of the opportunities we have, not only for our Pacific friends, but also for ourselves and elsewhere, is to build the industries so that we can export. Many of you will know the great work of RocketLab, for instance, but that has actually also supported a lot of other businesses that are very high tech. Tech is now our second largest export. It is unbelievably wonderful. And, you know, I'm the Minister for Technology as well, and Innovation and Science. So it's very important that we saw ways of better surveillance and also saw ways of dealing with some bad situations, and I think too, we also saw much better intelligence gathering opportunities.

JOURNALIST: How are you taking into account Fiji's idea about the zoning piece, considering this ICBM by China, and then in two months’ time, missile testing from Guam twice a year.

MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS, FIJI, LT COL PIO TIKODUADUA: It's very relevant question. You know, I'll be straightforward to say that that particular action contradicts our idea of notion of peace. It's not not only an idea from Fiji, from our Prime Minister in person, in terms of that, but in terms of peace in the Pacific to 2050. I think it all came as a surprise to many, including us. And I think, in terms of the Pacific spirit, in terms of how we want to live our life in this part of the world, which is the kind of values that this forum aspires to. We aspire to peace. And I think we can all say, put our hands to our heart to say that we don't want that in our neighbourhood. So, you know, if countries of the world want respect, then you know, we should be giving respect first. And that goes for everybody, not only on this occasion, where the missile testing has happened. And that's really, in the last few days, something that we have tried. We are precise. So, yes, there is a great relevance to that, and we hope that that will be the first and the last also. New

JOURNALIST: Was the New Caledonia situation brought up in SPDMM and maybe towards the French ambassador, are French police still on the ground in Noumea and have the restrictions and curfews been lifted yet? 

AMBASSADOR OF FRANCE TO NEW ZEALAND, THE COOK ISLANDS AND SAMOA, LAURENCE BEAU: Thank you very much for your question. New Caledonia is a very important topic, but it was not really the centre of the SPDMM meeting this week. To answer directly your question, the police on the ground is their homeland police- it's not military, troops. So it has mainly three main objectives; to protect the population, to assist for logistic and to secure the very important sites, like hospitals, things like that. So this is the objective of this police, and it has not been discussed here in this panel during this meeting.

JOURNALIST: How many officers from mainland France still on the ground? I think that was part of the question as well.

LAURENCE BEAU: I don't have the detail yet, and again, I would be very happy to talk about New Caledonia on the side. I'm really available as an Ambassador of France here in Wellington, and we can discuss that on the side. Thank you.

JOURNALIST: So just circling back to Fiji in that same vein, how do you feel about AUKUS and Australia's nuclear submarine capabilities?

TIKODUADUA: Thank you for the question. These are sovereign issues that are the domain of Australian and New Zealand, and how they know how they set up their defence posture, how they look at their own interests. Obviously, we have respect for that. We from Fiji do have respect for that. And every nation has a right to protect itself. This is important, but also every other nation has to respect each other. And therefore, I think our position is pretty public- I've been asked about in addition to New Zealand, and the answer is the same in terms of how we view, how Australia treats AUKUS and how it defends its own interest and also its own governance and its people. 

JOURNALIST: How are we protecting national security interests in space- 

COLLINS: Sorry?

JOURNALIST: How are protecting national security interests in space- a general question?

COLLINS: Well, we have relationships, but also we don't have enormous national security interests right at the moment, other than obviously, things like GPS, weather satellites, those sorts of things. But look, it's not really the focus of our meeting today- 

JOURNALIST: Was it raised?

COLLINS: No, not at all. And the fact is, we all need space. We need the space- what we have the technology. Most of you would have possibly used a form of either Google Maps or some other maps to get here. Yeah, that's not, you know that's coming from space. Understand it's absolutely critical now to our way of life, but also our economic development. And clearly, space is very important. Last year, or actually this year, we are, I understand last week, we were the third most prolific and successful launcher of vertical launches in the world, after the US and China, Russia is normally beating us, but they're somewhat occupied on other things. And so we are now number three. And so, yes, space is really important. We put a lot of payloads up, particularly for other people and protecting those assets. Well, if we, if we could tell you, it's probably not a good idea that we do tell you. Thank you. 

JOURNALIST: Minister, are we happy to move on to other things? 

COLLINS: Other things – yep. Although I do like that statistic, I think that's really good, don't you? Last year, it was four, and now we’re third. 

JOURNALIST: Minister, just this is the first time SPDMM has invited the Pacific Secretary General. Why was why has it taken to- you know, in its ninths meeting to invite the Secretary along and how did it go with having him at the meeting this year? 

COLLINS: I'm not sure. Do you have an answer that one? 

MARLES: Yeah. I mean, I think to answer the second part of the question first, it went really well. I think it's a very important development for the Secretary General of the Pacific Island Forum to attend the South Pacific Defence Ministers Meeting, and I very much hope that that will now be what happens as we go into the future. I mean, the South Pacific Defence Ministers Meeting is not a particularly old construct, is perhaps the way to answer this. This is our ninth meeting- we've been around for about a decade. It is a time to kind of look at who we are and what our role is and where we fit we are. You know, clearly in the Pacific family- and it goes back to the I think the question that you were asking before, does this- do our decisions will cause some form of PIF endorsement. I mean, they don't, but it matters that the PIF has visibility of what we do. Unlike a whole range of other organizations that operate across the Pacific, from fisheries through the University of the South Pacific, through to environmental agencies. They will have their own different memberships. They will have their own mechanisms for making decisions. But the premier forum which meets at a leader level to discuss the policy issues of the Pacific is the Pacific Island forum. And we obviously all within our government's operations in the context of our leaders. And so having, I think it is right that the forum Secretary General should be here. We hope that this is relatively early on in our life as an organization. I'm sure the Secretary Generals now going forward, will be at the at the South Pacific Defence Ministers Meeting, and we, whilst we retain the decision making rights that we do, we very much see ourselves grounded in that greater Pacific family.

JOURNALIST: [inaudible] member status, rather than just – [inaudible]

MARLES: Well, it's, I mean, I think what defines us is the- I mean, this is a gathering of the countries in the Pacific which have a defence force- like that's what this is. And I think one of the things I would want to say up front is how significant a gathering this is. I mean, having operated quite a bit in the Pacific over the course of my public career, and seen a lot of these agencies operating, what you have in front of you now is a very dynamic, a very practical group that is making a difference. And what defines us is the fact that we have at our disposal defence forces, which obviously bring a whole lot of capability to bear, which you know, through the Pacific Response Group as an example, is able to respond to natural disasters rapidly and quickly. In that context, you know, the Pacific Island forum is not that- I mean, it doesn't have a standing defence force. And so it matters as the place which is the gathering of leaders in the Pacific to have visibility of what we're doing, clearly is going to be interested in the work that we were undertaking. So I think it is a really important step in the right direction. But I mean, you know what defines us is that we've got defence forces. 

BEAU: Excuse me, just to add something that is different institutions, and as Mr. Marles said, it is very important that visibility is here, but it's very important also for the external information and in both ways actually. So that's why it's so important. 

JOURNALIST: Mr Marles, thank you. New Zealand police are seeking a diplomatic immunity waiver to charge the partner of an Australian diplomat. Will Australia agree to this?

MARLES: Look, I'm limited in what I can say here, but I would want to make a couple of comments. Firstly, it's the absolute expectation of Australia that our diplomats and the families of our diplomats abide by the laws of the countries in which they are guests, and that very much applies here in New Zealand. This matter is being handled by the New Zealand police and an Australian that's being handled by the Australian High Commission and the Department of Foreign Affairs, and they'll work out those mechanisms. But I would want to make completely clear that our expectation as a government is that our diplomats and our families abide by the laws of the countries in which they live.

JOURNALIST: Thank you, Minister. Just to follow up with, does the diplomats partner- have they remained in New Zealand, or have they left?

MARLES: Look again, I'm not going to, nor am I in a position to go through the specifics of that committee. 

JOURNALIST: Can we move on to Lebanon, if it is an appropriate time to move on. Minister, can we start with you? Do we have any- I know you're not the Foreign Minister- but are we, have we asked Australia for any help? Do we have any New Zealanders up there is there anything that you can sort of shed light on in that regard?

COLLINS: We have some New Zealanders in Lebanon. They- the ones who are there, we understand wish to stay, and then wish to remain. And, of course, we will be discussing those who wish to move, how we assist. We have, obviously, we are not next door to Lebanon, and there are very few New Zealanders there. 

JOURNALIST: Do you know the numbers?

COLLINS: We have those numbers which we can give to you. And I've got that somewhere my press secretaries is looking at something. We can get that for you. We can get you those numbers. It's not a large number.

JOURNALIST: Australia, on the other hand, a very big population of Australian-Lebanese, 1,700 up there at the moment. Have you asked New Zealand for help in terms of what's happening for you guys? 

MARLES: Well, firstly it's a much larger number than that. We've got 1,700 people who have registered an interest in potentially needing some assistance. But we've got thousands of Australians, north of 10,000 Australians who are Australian citizens, who are in Lebanon. Again, a few points I want to make; for those Australian citizens who are in Lebanon right now, if you want to leave, you need to leave, and leave right now. We've been working with our friends, particularly countries like the United Kingdom and Canada, to provide travel, assisted travel out of Lebanon whilst the airport remains open. Today, we have been for example, been able to secure 80 seats out of Lebanon. Only 35 of those have been taken up. Which, again, brings me back to reiterating, if you are an Australian citizen in Lebanon now, the time to leave is now. Over the course of the weekend, there are another 500 seats that we have organized for people to leave Lebanon- it is critical that Australian citizens wanting to leave take that opportunity over the course of the weekend. Beyond that, we are clearly working up various plans for various scenarios. It probably doesn't help to publicly speculate around those scenarios, but I would also then say we work really closely with our friends and partners. We are working with the UK and Canada. But again, I don't want to go into detail, but if we look into the recent past, when we were doing evacuations from Israel, we engaged in the evacuation of a number of people from the Pacific on that occasion. And we will obviously be working with close friends about how we can best assist.

JOURNALIST: Is it likely to need a, you know, your own Hercules or other partners- you mentioned Canada and others. You know, we've got brand new Hercules, like, what is- 

MARLES: Well, again, I'm not- we have worked on plans and preparations, actually, over the last few months in respect of a range of scenarios. I don't want to speculate on the scenarios, because I think it's not helpful for me to do that. But be assured that there are plans in place in relation to that. The important point to make right now is that if you're an Australian in Lebanon, now is the time to leave right now, and there are opportunities which are being provided for that to occur, people need to take those opportunities as they are presented.

COLLINS: Perhaps Yvonne, I have the numbers- just have to find them. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade has got, in fact, got 50 New Zealanders registered as being in Lebanon and MFAT and the Minister of Foreign Affairs are the leads on this, but it is, it is important, if people want to go, want to get out, get out.

JOURNALIST: Are you working with Australia?

COLLINS: Well, this is something going through the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade, so will it with them to deal with that. 

JOURNALIST: Is the New Zealand or Australian government looking for outside citizens to opening its doors to people impacted by these conflicts in Gaza and Lebanon?

COLLINS: Look, and from my point of view, well outside the Defence Minister's brief, might I say, thankfully, quite outside and I think we'll just stick to defence issues. Thank you.

JOURNALIST: Did the topic of cybersecurity in the South Pacific ever come up? And I guess, any correlation to, I guess, make it consistent across the South Pacific?

COLLINS: I think it's very important. We certainly discussed, just briefly, in a way, cyber security, and the reason is because it's an incredibly important area, and there's certain things that, particularly being that some of us have abilities to assist others with. And I just think it's one of those areas of attack that we're often, as you know, under, and I think we're all subject to it. So it is certainly one of those areas that is a hot topic for us all.

JOURNALIST: And looking forward, I guess. How under this [inaudible] how do you feel, tracking towards what? How would you describe you want South Pacific to look for the company? 

COLLINS: I'm going to ask Papua New Guinea to contribute to that one. What do you think? 

MINISTER OF DEFENCE PAPUA NEW GUINEA, DR BILLY JOSEPH: Well, the traditional security domains, as we know, the land, sea- 

JOURNALIST: Just the microphone, please. 

DR JOSEPH: Thank you. There is- no we know the traditional domains in defence, especially land, sea, air has expanded to now, cyber and cognitive domains and all these different challenges that we face in the Pacific. It's really important that we work together as a family, as you see, Australia, New Zealand, France and US, Japan and the three smaller Pacific Island countries, PNG, Tonga and Fiji we’re militaries, and we work together to face those challenges.

COLLINS: I also take the opportunity just to mention that one of the decisions, we had 17 outcomes from our meeting, which I think has to be a record and great work together. But we've also decided that, as one of those, the least difficult decision of all was that Chile is going to be hosting next year's South Pacific Defence Ministers Meeting. I'm going to now pass to my good friend Ricardo to speak to that.

VICE MINISTER OF DEFENCE, CHILE, RICARDO MONTERO: Thank you very much, Minister. Thank you for the organisation of this wonderful event. It's been a great, great meeting. Thank you, Minister. Collins and the government of New Zealand. It's going to be a huge challenge for us to organise this next year. It's going to be our first time. It's going to be the tenth edition, but we're going to be very, very happy to receive all of you, all of you in the other side of the Pacific. We're going to see if it's in Santiago or in Valparaiso, but we're really, really happy to work together from this side of the Pacific and the other side too. 

[Inaudible]

JOURNALIST: I am probably having a senior moment here, but can I just we will help them, and if it's Lebanon [Inaudible] New Zealand citizens or otherwise.

COLLINS: I think it's not helpful for me to say anything publicly about that. Thanks. 

JOURNALIST: There is one notable absence on this table, which is Tonga. Do you think this compromises [inaudible]?

COLLINS: Oh, no, I think no, Tonga has been a very active member this week, and it's simply that the Crown Prince and his team had to rush for a flight. But they have been great members, and we've really enjoyed the contribution of Tonga, as I personally enjoyed everyone's contributions this week. So we've had a great time. And I thought Tonga was very active. Thank you. 

JOURNALIST: Just on, I guess tensions rising more and more, can we see change to the format and [inaudible]?

COLLINS: We haven't discussed that at all, and I think we have a secretariat that was really working hard behind the scenes to help us all achieve our goals, and we haven't discussed that as an issue. But look, you know, we are very pleased that we have these meetings. And personally, as the Minister of Defence for New Zealand, I think they're an incredible asset to us in New Zealand. And I think every minister here would feel that our Chiefs of Defence forces are involved, our senior staff and our ministries are involved. You know, I think it's just one of those things that's very helpful to us all.

BEAU: And if I may, one of the decision of the last SPDMM was to create and establish and intersessional working group. So the work is going all through the year, and it's not just once a year. All these people work together all year long. And this is very important, and this is why we managed to arrive to this fantastic number of 17 outcomes.

COLLINS: All right, thank you very much.

ENDS