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The Hon Richard Marles MP
Deputy Prime Minister
Minister for Defence
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30 January 2025
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC – RN BREAKFAST
THURSDAY, 30 JANUARY 2025
SUBJECT/S: Caravan in NSW; Funding for UNRWA; Oscar Jenkins; Trump Administration
SALLY SARA: Richard Marles is the Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister and joins me now. Minister, welcome back to breakfast.
DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, RICHARD MARLES: Good morning, Sally. How are you?
SARA: Very well. When were you first briefed about this incident?
MARLES: Well look, yesterday the NSW Police in their press conference explained the way in which they had managed the information in respect of this. I'm not going to second guess that in the sense that there are reasons why this information is managed in the public domain in the way that it has been. And so, you know, I'm not going to go into that. But what is clear is that all efforts have been put to bear to foil this- thankfully, this incident was foiled, but what lies behind it is sickening. And that there was an attempt to pursue an event of this kind is really appalling. There is no place for this kind of activity in Australia-
SARA: Minister, when were you first briefed on this incident?
MARLES: Well again, I'm not going to go into that and I think what matters here is that every effort from the police authorities has been put to bear here. There is an enormous effort between federal agencies, not just the AFP and ASIO, but also working with the state police, in this instance, the NSW Police, that has yielded the right result in this case. But as I said, I think what underlies this is a malevolence which has to be called out against the Jewish community and which we need to be doing everything within our power to stop.
SARA: Does the community have a right to know, particularly members of the Jewish community, if they're making decisions about their own actions during the day, where they might go and things like that, should they be fully informed so that they understand the situation and can make decisions about their safety accordingly?
MARLES: Well, I think it's very important that there is liaison between the authorities and the leadership of the Jewish community. I think it's also really important that the police be allowed to manage operational matters in the way that they see best, and that's what's happened here-
SARA: Was the Jewish community informed prior to this public announcement yesterday?
MARLES: Well again, I'm not going to go through that. Nor am I in a position obviously to speak for the NSW Police. But I think it's very important that we let the authorities do their work and do their work in the manner as they see fit. What is important for people to understand here is there is a full throated effort here on the part of all of our police authorities to deal with this issue. And they are. And that is being backed by the resources being provided by, in this case, the NSW government, but obviously at a federal level, the Federal Government as well. And all of that is being brought to bear to do everything we can to keep the community safe. And of course in this instance there was success. But no one's sanguine about this. They're in fact quite the opposite. Every effort is being put to bear to deal with what is a rising malevolence in our society in relation to anti-Semitism. And it has no place in modern Australia.
SARA: Minister, let's move on to a connected issue. Israel's ban on the operations of the UN aid agency for Palestinian refugees comes into force today. I spoke earlier with David Mentzer who is a spokesman for the Israeli government. This is what he had to say:
DAVID MENTZER: Your taxpayers are paying Hamas salaries. Just be completely clear about that. There is not a scintilla of doubt. UNRWA employees over 1,200 Hamas members, including terrorists that carried out the October 7th massacre. This isn't aid, its direct support for terrorism.
SARA: What's your response to that claim that if nations like Australia are supporting UNRWA, that Australian taxpayers are funding Hamas?
MARLES: Well, UNRWA has received support over many, many years from successive Australian governments. There have been issues raised with UNRWA and as you know, over the course of the last 15 months there's been periods where that support to UNWRA has been suspended and UNRWA has been called to account in terms of answering questions in relation to this. But the Australian government is providing humanitarian assistance to people in Gaza and in the Palestinian Authority. And right now the agency which is in the position to do that is UNRWA. And we are rightly, along with governments around the world, providing humanitarian assistance to people in Gaza. For obvious reasons, people can see that this is a place where humanitarian assistance is needed and there is really no proposition being put out there that there is an alternative in terms of being able to provide that humanitarian assistance to people in Gaza other than through UNRWA. So, you know, situations are not perfect by definition in the Middle East, but we are going to be providing humanitarian assistance, and that's rightly the case, and we're doing that in concert with other countries around the world.
SARA: So, do you reject that characterization from the spokesman for the Israeli government that Australian taxpayers are, if you're funding UNRWA, you're funding Hamas?
MARLES: What Australian taxpayers are funding in this instance is humanitarian assistance to people in Gaza. And you know, we've been very clear about the fact that we are making our contribution to that. We are not alone in relation to this. We are providing humanitarian assistance along with other likeminded countries around the world. And the agency which really– you know, the most significant, overwhelmingly most significant agency which has been able to deploy that humanitarian assistance has been UNRWA. And it's not without question. In fact, questions have been asked and UNRWA has been held to account in terms of the funding that Australia has been providing over the last 15 months. But at the same time, you know, it matters, clearly, that people are being provided with humanitarian assistance as best as possible.
SARA: Minister, I want to move on to the fate of Australian Oscar Jenkins, who was fighting with Ukrainian forces. He was captured by Russian forces. Do you have any new information about his whereabouts or welfare?
MARLES: I don't, other than what's been in the public domain over the last 24–48 hours. And I emphasise that the information that has been made public over that period of time has been provided by Russia, and so we need to bear that in mind in terms of assessing the veracity of it, and we are working well through the Ukrainian government, but also through the International Red Cross, importantly, to try and verify that information and that's where our efforts are at right now. The point I'd make though, Sally, is that if this information that's been provided by Russia is true, well then obviously Russia have obligations here. I mean, firstly they should be releasing him. But secondly, as a prisoner of war, Russia has obligations under international conventions. We expect them to be met and applied to this man and we will hold Russia to account in respect of that.
SARA: Minister, would Australia be prepared to negotiate to achieve the release of Oscar Jenkins? Are you open to a prisoner exchange?
MARLES: Well, I think before we get to that point, in terms of Mr. Jenkins, I think it is– we need to be actually ascertaining the facts here and that's where our focus is. And making clear that if what Russia is saying is true, then they have obligations in respect of Mr. Jenkins and we expect them to be upheld.
SARA: Looking to the US now, you've spoken for the first time with your US counterpart, Donald Trump's new Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. What did he say about the AUKUS agreement and how long was the conversation?
MARLES: Well, I’m not going on to the details of the timing, but he was very positive in relation to AUKUS. We very much discussed AUKUS. It was a very warm conversation. There was very much a sense of common purpose. I think, you know, from my point of view, what was really clear in the words of Secretary Hegseth to me was an intention to maintain American leadership in the world in terms of supporting the rules-based order. That's exactly what I would have expected. But it was very much affirmed by him and it's really– that's a very important point and you know, our key equities in respect of the Alliance – and you're right to say to ask about AUKUS because AUKUS is front and centre in relation to that is moving ahead – and he was very supportive in relation to that as well. We both indicated a desire to meet in person as soon as we can, we'll get to work on that. But it was a very positive call and it's consistent with the call that Foreign Minister Penny Wong had with her counterpart Secretary Rubio and the NSA, Mike Waltz, in the days after the inauguration, which of course builds on the phone call that Prime Minister Albanese had with President Trump himself. And so I think Australians can have a sense of confidence that the Alliance is going to be maintained in the way you would expect between this government and the Trump administration. We live in a world where there are many challenges. That is perfectly understood by those in the Trump administration and they mean to maintain American leadership in the world. And that is a very good thing.
SARA: Minister, we'll need to leave it there. Thank you for your time this morning.
MARLES: Pleasure, Sally.
ENDS