Television Interview, ABC, Afternoon Briefing

SUBJECTS: Trump Administration; Trade; AUKUS. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Well, the Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles has been in Washington over the weekend talking AUKUS. I spoke to him before question time, just before the Prime Minister revealed his phone call. Richard Marles, welcome to the program.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon, Patricia.

KARVELAS: Minister, you've been in the US over the weekend, of course, talking about the AUKUS deal with Trump officials. Were you given a heads up about this 25 per cent tariff on steel and aluminum imports?

MARLES: Well, Secretary Hegseth and I have both made public statements about the meeting that we had and I'm obviously not going to go into what was said in the meeting beyond those public statements. We, as two defence ministers were very focused on the defence equities between our two countries. But I make two points. One is that in relation to AUKUS, an underlying component of AUKUS has been to see trade much more easily occur within defence industry. That's a function of the legislation which went through the United States Congress at the end of 2023 with the support of Republicans. And we've seen hundreds of companies since September, which is when that came into place, benefit from this to the tune of millions of dollars of increased trade. And the second point I’d make is, more broadly, there is very much advocacy on the part of our government to the Trump Administration around the question of tariffs.

KARVELAS: Well, the AI Group's Chief Executive, Innes Willox, is really concerned. Let's just hear what he had to say today.

INNES WILLOX, AI GROUP: We've just had the Deputy Prime Minister in Washington dealing with AUKUS and now this has happened. This has just told us that we're not exempt and nobody should think that we're ever going to be exempt from American trade actions over the next four years.

KARVELAS: What do you say to that?

MARLES: Well, we will continue to advance Australia's interests in relation to trade. I mean, there are a couple of points to make in relation to the announcement that's been made out of the United States. Firstly, obviously from an Australian point of view, as an island trading nation, with an increasing proportion of our national wealth being derived from trade, we support a freer trading environment around the world. And secondly, specifically in relation to our relationship with the United States, the US-Australia Free Trade Agreement has been enormously beneficial to both countries since it's been in place and has seen a growth in our respective trade in the favour of the United States.

KARVELAS: But Innes Willox suggests there, that you kind of– you should just expect that you won't get a carve out and it should be a national priority to go and get one. Are you going again? Are you deploying the Prime Minister? What's going to happen? 

MARLES: Well, we will certainly continue to make the case. So, one thing that's not going to– 

KARVELAS: Is there a sense of urgency, though?– 

MARLES: Of course there is. And–

KARVELAS: Donald Trump’s announcing this. What are the immediate things we can expect from the Albanese Government now?

MARLES: And we have been making the case since the first day of this administration in relation to the maintenance of the free trade which exists between our countries and specifically in relation to the tariffs that have been proposed. I mean, none of this is a surprise. Of course, the policies of the Trump Administration were clear during the course of the US election and so we've been making this argument consistently to them, and since they've been sworn in, and we will continue to make that argument. And I– 

KARVELAS: Ok, what does that look like next, though? I mean, you've spent the weekend working on securing AUKUS. What can we expect next for steel and aluminum for the Australian industry? Will it be Ministerial or will the Prime Minister try to get Donald Trump on the phone?

MARLES: Well, again, I'm not going to go into the specifics of what's going to happen. As that unfolds, people will see it. But people should be assured that we are advocating to the greatest possible extent to the United States system and to the Trump Administration about Australia's interests in relation to Trump.

KARVELAS: And how are you using AUKUS within that? Because the signing of AUKUS was also about Australian industry becoming part of that international supply chain. Is our steel being used as part of that negotiation as well? Are you using AUKUS to make the case about being exempt from these tariffs?

MARLES: Well, the point that we make in relation to AUKUS is the one I've just made to you, that what's inherent in AUKUS, which has already occurred with the support of the Republicans and Trump Republicans, has been a much freer trading environment in respect of defence industry. That's been in place now since September of last year– 

KARVELAS: But does this threat threaten that continuing?

MARLES: Well, I think the point of AUKUS, and this is– I mean, this is the point of AUKUS in terms of why it's important between our two countries – not the only reason, of course, but one of the reasons – is that it has seen an opening up of trade and a removal of barriers specifically in relation to defence industry. And that is very much to the benefit of both countries in terms of having the capabilities that we need, having the products that we need to improve our capabilities. It's also really important in terms of how we share our information and jointly walk down the path of increasing our technology. Now, that is innate in AUKUS. That has been a key part of what AUKUS has been and that is part of how we tell the AUKUS story.

KARVELAS: Are you worried about access to the Trump Administration? Ultimately, it's Donald Trump who makes these calls. The Prime Minister won't meet him until potentially the Quad meeting in June. Isn't that too late to negotiate a carve out for Australia?

MARLES: I think if you look at our access to the Trump Administration since it was sworn in days ago, really, I mean, just a few weeks, both– well, I was the first defence counterpart that Secretary Hegseth met since his nomination was confirmed and since he took up the role as the Secretary of Defense. That's a significant thing. Penny Wong was one of the first people that Secretary Rubio met having been sworn in as the United States Secretary of State.

KARVELAS: But given the way Donald Trump operates, which is really well known, we need it to be President to Prime Minister, don’t we?

MARLES: And again, the Prime Minister and the President have already spoken–

KARVELAS: Are you seeking for another meeting before June?

MARLES: Again, I'm not going to go into the detail of that, but as these things play out, you'll see them. But I think when you look at what we have done in terms of our engagement with the Trump Administration since they have been sworn in, we could not have been more on the front foot and indeed we could not have been more welcomed by them. You know, in the key portfolios which affect us, they have met with us almost immediately.

KARVELAS: So, do you think that you will get an exemption just like Malcolm Turnbull? Is that what you're saying?

MARLES: What I'm saying is that we will continue to advocate for it. And in that sense, you know, I hear the words that Innes has said in a clip that you showed. But you can be sure that this government will continue to advocate for Australia's interest in relation to this. And our interests obviously lie in having free trade.

KARVELAS: Is Kevin Rudd the right person, right now to be doing this?

MARLES Yeah, he is and–

KARVELAS: Why?

MARLES: Well, firstly, he is a very skilled diplomat. That's been his long-term career. He is a force of nature in terms of the energy that he brings to bear here. As a former prime minister, he carries an enormous amount of gravitas. But perhaps the ultimate answer to that question is look at the record of what he has achieved in terms of our engagement with the Trump Administration since they were sworn in just a few weeks ago. Upfront meetings really quickly with Australia, ahead of other countries, in the key portfolios; foreign affairs, defence. A very early phone call between our Prime Minister and the President– 

KARVELAS: Are you cultivating other key contacts, people like Scott Morrison, to play a role here?

MARLES: We are focused on engaging with the Trump Administration. That is going well. I think you can look at what we have done up until now in terms of all the specific engagements that we've had as Australia, and it is ahead of the rest of the world. And Kevin Rudd is doing a great job.

KARVELAS: Let me just put this to you, Chris Minns worries about the job impact if you can't get an exemption. Will there be a significant job loss if you can't get an exemption on steel and aluminum in Australia?

MARLES: Well, we're going to continue to work on Australia's national interest and work on advancing our case. That's what's important right now.

KARVELAS: But is it inevitable that jobs will go if you can't get an exemption? Is that the consequence of tariffs like these?

MARLES: Free trade is of benefit to Australia, clearly. As I said at the outset, we are a country which is deriving an increasing part of our national income and our national prosperity from trade. So we understand how important it is to our national interest, which is fundamentally the answer to your question, and we will continue to advocate this to the United States.

KARVELAS: Richard Marles, thank you.

MARLES: Thanks, Patricia.

ENDS.