Interview with Tom Connell, Sky News

SUBJECTS: Australia’s aid to Ukraine; Recommendations of the Independent Defence Strategic Review; Australia's investment in AUKUS.

TOM CONNELL: A lot of the world's attention has been on Ukraine, particularly after the fallout between the Ukrainian President and the US President Donald Trump. The UK says it will help step up. How much can Europe do so to help Ukraine be able to continue the fight against Russia? Joining me now is Defence Industry Minister Pat Conroy. Thank you for your time. Is now the time to step up? Is the Australian government looking at what it can do urgently in the short term to help out Ukraine given now this all, at the very least, uncertainty?

MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY PAT CONROY: Well, as the Prime Minister said this morning to Cabinet, we stand with the people of Ukraine in a valiant fight against the illegal and unprovoked invasion of their country by Russia. We're proud to be the biggest non-NATO military contributor. Of $1.3 billion of our $1.5 billion has been military assistance, and we're always talking to the Ukrainian government about how we can provide more support. I got to announce our gifting of Abrams tanks to them when I was at the NATO Defence Ministers meeting last year. So, we'll keep talking to them and we stand shoulder to shoulder with them in their fight.

TOM CONNELL: That was October, so they're going to take what, a year to deliver in the end?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, we made the announcement in November from memory. But there's significant export controls on those tanks because they are US technology, so you can't deliver them overnight. But that is one part of our $1.3 billion worth of support, whether it's drones, anti-drone equipment, missiles, Bushmasters. We provided a lot of support to Ukraine.

TOM CONNELL: Do we need to look at though, that system and you said, you know, export limitations? I mean, this is a war, and we've got a thing where, like, we want to give it to you and it takes a year. It just strikes me as crazy. Are you looking into ways where this is no longer the case? Today it’s Ukraine, there might be other future conflicts.

MINISTER CONROY: Well, I'm not going to comment on that timeline. I'm not going to confirm that timeline that you put --

TOM CONNELL: So, it's not going to be a year?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, I'm not going to talk about timeframes for operational reasons, but we've been very clear that we need the cooperation of the US government which is being provided to remove sensitive US technology. That's part of the condition for when we were given these Abrams --

TOM CONNELL: Take out the tech out of the tanks to then send them over. 

MINISTER CONROY: Yeah, again –

TOM CONNELL: That could take months and months.

MINISTER CONROY: Well, again, conditions are imposed when we buy equipment from other countries, and we have to fulfil those conditions, and we're getting them to Ukraine as fast as possible. This is one part of our $1.3 billion worth of military assistance. Again, biggest non-NATO contributor of military assistance, and --

TOM CONNELL: Any more announcements on the horizon?

MINISTER CONROY: Again, we're talking to the Ukrainian Government very regularly and we're standing shoulder to shoulder with them.

TOM CONNELL: F-35s announced by the Coalition topping up for reinstating the previous figure we were going to have. Is this a decent announcement in these heightened risk times, evidenced by the Chinese naval vessels?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, this was a stunt that was immediately blown out of the water. What's become very apparent is that this thought bubble has significantly underestimated the cost. The Opposition said it's going to cost $3 billion. We've seen independent experts say $9 billion. The last purchase of Joint Strike Fighters, which occurred in September last year for roughly the same number, 32 versus the 28 the Opposition is claiming, cost $11.5 billion. So, more than triple the amount they say it will cost. That's without including the cost of weapons, the pilots, the hangars, all that infrastructure. So, if you can't get basic facts right, basic figures, you can't be trusted on defence, more than triple the cost.

TOM CONNELL: What about the need though? Because the Super Hornets, the life was extended. That means once they do go out of action, we'll have reduced capacity.

MINISTER CONROY: Well, it wasn't an extension of life. The last government's plan was to retire them early. Retire them before the US Navy was retiring their Super Hornets. The Independent Defence Strategic Review recommended to us that we should maintain the same lifespan as the US Navy and use the resources freed up to invest in Long-Range Strike. That's why we're establishing two missile factories. The first one that will deliver missiles this year. But again, the Opposition got their facts wrong, massively. More than triple the cost that they claim --

TOM CONNELL: When the Super Hornets go out of service though, we were going to have 100 F-35s. We won't have 100 anymore.

MINISTER CONROY: Well, no, the Super Hornets are going to stay in service.

TOM CONNELL: Until 2030, isn't it?

MINISTER CONROY: No, no. Well into the 2030s, possibly into the 2040s. We're going to marry the service life of the US Navy, which is the parent operator of them, the last government was retiring them early. The DSR said that didn't make a lot of sense. What makes sense is using the resources freed up to build missile factories and equiping the Royal Australian Air Force, the Army and Navy with long range missiles to deter adversaries. But I want to return to this fact because this is really important. If you get something wrong when it's really $11.5 billion at least, and you say $3 billion as the Opposition did, you can't be trusted on defence, you just can't be.

TOM CONNELL: What about when we think of the macro? Plenty of analysts suggest that the cost of AUKUS is so big, if we want a proper separate defence capability, we're going to need much more than even the mid 2s in terms of per cent of GDP. Do you think that's - are you open to that? Because AUKUS is going to be just such a huge extra cost onto things.

MINISTER CONROY: Well, AUKUS is a significant investment to get the most advanced submarines in the world. There's no way of getting around that. But we're making big investments in other capabilities. As part of our increase in the defence budget by $50 billion more than the previous trajectory. We're securing 11 general purpose frigates that will have up to 32 missile cells in each of them. More importantly, that means that we'll get four warships by 2034, whereas the Coalition's plan was to get one by 2034. So, that's a separate independent process from AUKUS. We're building missile factories in this country. We've brought forward acquisition of things like the SM-6 missile and test firing Tomahawks.

TOM CONNELL: Do the sight though of those Chinese naval ships make you wonder if the non-AUKUS aspect that we're gearing up for will be enough?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, as people have said we expect to see, under these challenging geostrategic circumstances, more countries investing in more capability. That's why we're increasing our defence budget. That's why we're investing in long-range missiles. Let me give you an example in the Navy. We inherited a navy that was the oldest since World War II, whose longest weapon was 124 kilometres. Our longest-range strike weapon now is 2,500 kilometres under the Albanese Labor Government. We're investing in the capability we need to keep Australians safe, whereas the Opposition just have thought bubbles that aren't costed properly and are superficial.

TOM CONNELL: Excuse me for that. Darwin Port. Is that lease to the Chinese company no longer tenable?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, again, that was a plan signed -- or contract allowed under the last government. And as the PM noted yesterday, a Coalition minister immediately joined the board of the company that bought -- leased Darwin Port. Look, I'm not going to get into that at this stage. That's outside my purview. I'm focused on the defence industry, but obviously, that was a decision the last government made. That was an appalling decision.

TOM CONNELL: Pat Conroy, appreciate your time. Thank you.

ENDS